TF2 Pyromania update

[Jagos]

Day one gives us New achievements (http://www.teamfortress.com/pyromania/doomsday/) as well as the anticipation of going to fight a new map.

Further, I'd love to know what's up with the lint and banana peels dropping?

[BB]

All the information about the peels and stuff can be found on the TF2 Wiki's ARG page (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/ARG), but so far (and cutting a long story short) the banana peels reveal this image (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/6/68/Saxton_Hale_Hearing_Transcript.jpg), a transcript of Hale's court case regarding Poopy Joe the monkey.

Also interesting is that Valve are apparently doing something with Adult Swim (http://www.adultswim.com/promos/valve/), though it's possibly not related to this update.

EDIT: The rest of that transcript has been revealed (http://www.teamfortress.com/pyromania/thepoopyjoefiles/) through a hidden link. Most of it blanked out, arghs!

[Flarecobra]

Poor Soldier... (http://www.teamfortress.com/pyromania/soldierhome/)

[Locke cole]

Doomsday sounds like an unholy fusion of Payload Race and CTF. I like.

[Aldurin]

Those weapons . . .

[Aldurin]

Also also--- does this mean we might have a Meet the Pyro video soon?

Supposed to be tomorrow.

[BB]

New flaregun does 15 damage on hit and knockback... on a class that likes to be as close to his opponent as possible. Unless it can do some fancy flarejumping trick or has some other un-noted benefit I'm not really seeing why you would use this. The other weapons look interesting though- as a pyro semi-main I'd love to see a lot of scouts with that new pistol...

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

New flaregun does 15 damage on hit and knockback... on a class that likes to be as close to his opponent as possible. Unless it can do some fancy flarejumping trick or has some other un-noted benefit I'm not really seeing why you would use this. The other weapons look interesting though- as a pyro semi-main I'd love to see a lot of scouts with that new pistol...

Puff n' sting, harass snipers from a distance, drive heavies back to buy time for a retreat.

[Locke cole]

Knock people off of ledges, drive back an Uber from a distance...

So guys, new Scout Pistol + Sandman.

[Ramary]

The new rocket launcher can insta gib sentries.

Well, unless that degree differentiation really screws him over more then I realize, but I think mid-close range, he will be fine.

Also the sniper SMG.....I want to try just going out and mass murdering with that like the KGB.

[Jagos]

The new rocket launcher can insta gib sentries.

Well, unless that degree differentiation really screws him over more then I realize, but I think mid-close range, he will be fine.



No... With the 3 degree differentiation you can have very wild shots. This is going to make the soldier a closer fighter and it'll be very interesting to watch this.

[Loyal]

My thoughts:

Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol: No falling damage on Scout is kind of arbitrary since he has always had the ability to escape falling damage by double-jumping. Also arbitrary is the "+x% vulnerability to damage type" downside, but at least this one's harsh enough to consistently make a difference. I don't see anyone going Pyro just to deal with these Scouts but at least a Scout will think twice before engaging an enemy with a Pyro nearby. With the Sandman you go back to approximately 125 health, and stock health gets 140/145. Not bad, but the weapon's viability depends entirely on how good and numerous the enemy Pyros are.

Baby Face Blaster: Seems weak. It's more accurate, but deals lower damage... so it's longer-ranged, but still deals low damage even at that range. At what distance does it reliably overtake the Scattergun, and does the Scout really want to be there in the first place? The Boost mechanic gives him the wherewithal to dart in and out of combat like never before, but only so long as he never jumps? What.

Hitman's Heatmaker: Looks like a solid weapon for skilled Snipers, but I don't see it fulfilling any niche the Bazaar Bargain doesn't already. Also worrying is that a fully-charged bodyshot will only deal 120 damage - meaning Bodyshots are now incapable of instagibbing anyone that isn't already injured, with the exception of things like Sandman Scouts, Kunai Spies, etc.

Cleaner's Carbine: If nothing else, the SMG Sniper has a new favorite weapon. Not sure this will be so beloved for most other Snipers since it's unlikely a Sniper will engage multiple enemies in close range and live. Also unlikely that one will be able to take advantage of the crits in conjunction with the Primary or Melee slots, given the three second window. Also, I don't get the name.

Scorch Shot: Weird. I won't be using it with any consistency, but I can see it being useful on a few maps. I can see someone trolling with it on Thunder Mountain Stage 1, or making the last part of plr_hightower even more stalematey than it already is. I'm ignoring the area immolation since afterburn alone almost never kills anyone and the Detonator does it better anyway. Does it still autocrit on burning targets at least?

Beggar's Bazooka: Very scary for Engineers. I don't see the firing deviation being an issue within the Soldier's effective range, but that's assuming I'm reading it correctly as a six-degree cone of fire. Is single-rocket firing affected at all? Will want to play around with it.

Conclusion: I think Valve decided first on a particular mechanic/gimmick to give each weapon, and then just rolled dice for additional modifiers. Dunno if it'll work.

[Flarecobra]

Scorch shot appears to be also quite good at disrupting snipers.

[Locke cole]

I'm praying that it detonates on solid surfaces, and that the push force is significant, allowing for true Flare Jumps the likes of which the Detonator cannot match.

Also: FAN, Prettyboy, Atomizer. Suicidally big jumps. Probably stupid, possibly useful. Though, I think I'll just pair it with the Sandman and Soda Popper, instead.

[Ryong]

Going to watch Meet the Pyro...

aaaand the server's down.

[Aldurin]

Team Fortress 2 is now explained forever. It makes all of the sense. All along the Pyro had cute intentions.

[Doc ock rokc]

That. Was. Perfect. Abso-fucking-lutely perfect. and Source film maker is now in beta!

I am happy.

[Flarecobra]

... Pyro is best Merc.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

WUhOnX8qt3I

Reposting for viewability.

[Aldurin]

Silly Doc, Shy beat you to the punch.

[Doc ock rokc]

Silly Doc, Shy beat you to the punch.

Shush

[Ryong]

Okay yeah that was fucking nice.

[Thadius]

Hmm.

Meet the pyro comes out.

Colorado is on fire.

HMMM.

[Mr.Bookworm]

and it's magic~

[Flarecobra]

You know what is needed? The "Happy Fun Dreamland" map.

And the bubbleblaster.

[rpgdemon]

I thought it was really funny, the first cut to happy dreamland, but then after that it felt sort of laborious. Like, okay, yeah, you're beating us over the head with what's really a throwaway joke, get on with it. Oh, the movie's over.

I liked the "Help me!" part, because it really did a good job of sort of tying the two worlds together. Pyro's like, "I'll help you!", but the reality of the situation is a dark, cold, fearless thing leveling a flamethrower at someone point blank.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

lX5tfRdkoY0

My mental state currently.

[Revising Ocelot]

Because today's new items contain some Meet the Pyro spoilers, we're gonna hold off on announcing those until the update’s ready later today.

I await my Lollipop Axe.

[Locke cole]

Rainbowthrower.

And yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about it. It's a weird feeling.

[Loyal]

I can already tell that flamethrower is going to be terrible for my framerate.

But damned if I don't want it.

Love the movie.

[e] Apparently some idiots have it in their head that MtP is a massive brony reference - for better or worse.

[Ramary]

Blah blah meeting pyros blah blah.

SCREW DAT, GET A LOAD OF THIS!

Zri1c_If6Ic

[Doc ock rokc]

I know I have already signed up twice

[mauve]

TF2's site won't load for me, but I've seen the video and sincerely hope the dream-air-canister on his back with the rainbow toddler xylophone keyboard thing on the back becomes a reality.

[Locke cole]

I can already tell that flamethrower is going to be terrible for my framerate.

But damned if I don't want it.

Love the movie.

[e] Apparently some idiots have it in their head that MtP is a massive brony reference - for better or worse.

That would be the Steam User Forums. To say that they hate the show and will take any opportunity to bring up that hate is like saying that they have a slight problem with the Heavy's unlocks.


edit: As for the Rainbowthrower, I'd live it if it was coded to look like whimsical rainbow-shooting horn on your end, and look like a twisted fire-throwing machine of death to everyone else.

[Doc ock rokc]

That would be the Steam User Forums. To say that they hate the show and will take any opportunity to bring up that hate is like saying that they have a slight problem with the Heavy's unlocks. Name any unlock any unlock at all and there is 2 people that hate it and compain to have it nerfed by making thousands of threads about it. There is 5 people that reply its fine. 2 other people that argue with these nitwits to try to show them logic. and 3 people that think it could use a buff no mater what it is.

They also follow Comp Tf2 like no ones business. and if comp bans it (which they always do) they say it is overpowered.


edit: As for the Rainbowthrower, I'd live it if it was coded to look like whimsical rainbow-shooting horn on your end, and look like a twisted fire-throwing machine of death to everyone else.

it would be awesome for your team to see it as the rainbow thing and the enemies see it as something scraped together with bananas, scrap wood and pocket lint.

[Mr.Bookworm]

WELP (http://www.teamfortress.com/pyromania/pyroland/)

Rainblower and Lollichop were expected, but my dearest, most sacred hope is that the Infernal Orchestrina actually plays the magic song.

[Ryong]

Stats? We don't care 'bout stats, right?

[Azisien]

Finally watched Meet the Pyro. It was excellent, but I think Spy is still my favourite.

[PyrosNine]

MY SELF! So all this time, while I've been running around in TF2....I've been setting people on fire?

[Locke cole]

Stats? We don't care 'bout stats, right?

Since they're invisible to anyone who isn't wearing the goggles, they have to be stock reskins, I'm pretty certain. So the Rainblower is a Flamethrower, and the Lollichop is a Fire Axe.

[Ramary]

Weapon balancing changes

Gloves of Running Urgently
Removed self-damage over time penalty
Heavy takes mini-crits while active and for 3 seconds after switching away
Attack damage penalty reduced from -50% to -25%

Tomislav
Spin-up speed bonus reduced from +40% to +10%

Quick-Fix
Medic mirrors blast jump of their heal target

Crusader's Crossbow
Reload speed time reduced by +40%

Cozy Camper
Regenerates 1 heath per second
Reduced movement penalty from -90% to -80%

Sticky Jumper and Rocket Jumper
Added 'flying' sound to blast jumps

The Concheror
Changed rage building source from "damage done and damage received" to only "damage done"
Increased the rate at which Rage builds for this item by +25%

The Equalizer
Removed player move speed modification and added it to a new item named The Escape Plan
All owners of the Equalizer will be automatically granted The Escape Plan

Crit-a-Cola
Added +25% increased movement speed while active
Increased duration from 6 to 8 seconds

Atomic Bonk
Increased duration from 6 to 8 seconds

All Flamethrowers
Increased base damage by +10%.

Backburner
Removed +10% damage bonus attribute
Note: Because of base damage increase, damage remains unchanged

Degreaser
Added -10% damage penalty attribute
Note: Because of base damage increase, damage remains unchanged

Phlogistinator
Damage defense while taunting reduced from -90% to -75%


WELL that happened. I like all the changes actually, expect the tomislav one, that baffles me.

[Ryong]

So.

Is there still a point to Equalizer now?

Interested in the Quick-Fix now, wondering how it works.

[Loyal]

The Equalizer was split into two weapons. The Equalizer now does more damage as your health decreases, while the Escape Plan improves your speed as your health decreases.

Liking the changes. Still more to be done, but hey.

Also there are no fucking servers available for the new game mode. :(

[Mr.Bookworm]

WELL that happened. I like all the changes actually, expect the tomislav one, that baffles me.

Yeah, these are nice. Especially the Tomislav one. In a Heavy duel where both are on roughly equal footing, it was almost impossible to beat a Heavy with the Tom if you don't already have your gun spun up.

So.

Is there still a point to Equalizer now?

Insane damage. The Equalizer was always a straight upgrade over most everything else. Splitting it's two advantages makes both more balanced.

Interested in the Quick-Fix now, wondering how it works.It means that you can follow your target if they rocket jump or similar. Which is all kinds of awesome.

[Locke cole]

Sticky jump into enemy stronghold. Activate superheal. Go to town.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

scout's new shotgun is pretty dang fun. The tight spread radius more or less negates the damage reduction and the boost charges up real quick. Boost stays on until you jump, so knock backs, back blasts, or falling off ledges don't drain it. Boy howdy the scout runs fast on full charge!

The new flair gun is pretty dandy too. Made more than a few kills with it already. Flare detonates upon contact with any surface.

Also, pyro goggles are awesome.

[Locke cole]

ANY surface?

And it is the blast that throws people?

How far, man? Can you flare jump with it?

[Loyal]

Got onto a Doomsday server, only for the game to immediately crash. :(

e: Game mode is interesting but in dire need of balance changes to ensure that the team to first grab the Australium doesn't autowin 9 times out of 10.

New effect for the brain-slug hat. Killfeed credits it for the kill with you as an assist. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZrtwvRNss4&feature=youtu.be)

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

ANY surface?

And it is the blast that throws people?

How far, man? Can you flare jump with it?

Knockback only happens when it hits a player, otherwise it's an on-impact AoE burn. When it hits the knockback is greater than I thought it would be. More than enough to knock someone off a ledge if they're somewhat close to it.

You can flarejump, but it doesn't seem to be as potent as det-jumping. Still, handy for getting over a ledge just a smidge taller than normal jump.

It doesn't crit on already burning targets, though. Makes for an amazing harassment weapon though. Oh, and when it hits a teammate it pops up and drops down to the ground and detonates. Not sure if the teammate-bounced detonation is same radius or not.

Oh oh: and you can aim the taunt shot. It appears the taunt shot does not kill the target but instead the flare bounces off and drops to the ground. Target takes impact damage, burn damage, and then ground explosion damage.

[Ramary]

Karesh and I tested the new quick fix.

We flew the skies (according to karesh you have to be pretty close to get the effect of the rocket jump, and since I was using the really tricky to learn new rocket launcher at the same time, it got screwy once in awhile.)

Speaking of, new rocket launcher works like this. You load the rockets like you are reloading by holding fire, release to fire up to 3 in rapid succession. The degree difference is actually not that bad at all, the real killer is that your ammo burns like all hell using it, since if you miss with one rocket, chances are you just missed with 3.

And yes it murders sentries like a champ.

Ill try it again when the servers are not super laggy cause of fresh update.

[Locke cole]

Knockback only happens when it hits a player, otherwise it's an on-impact AoE burn. When it hits the knockback is greater than I thought it would be. More than enough to knock someone off a ledge if they're somewhat close to it.

You can flarejump, but it doesn't seem to be as potent as det-jumping. Still, handy for getting over a ledge just a smidge taller than normal jump.

It doesn't crit on already burning targets, though. Makes for an amazing harassment weapon though. Oh, and when it hits a teammate it pops up and drops down to the ground and detonates. Not sure if the teammate-bounced detonation is same radius or not.

Oh oh: and you can aim the taunt shot. It appears the taunt shot does not kill the target but instead the flare bounces off and drops to the ground. Target takes impact damage, burn damage, and then ground explosion damage.
How much damage does the ground explosion do?

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

More experimenting with the lovely Scorch Shot!

Turns out the knock back scales with distance. Yup. The longer airtime the flare has the more potent the knock back becomes. Up close the knock is negligible and not even noticeable. In doomsday I pegged the australiam carrier off the platform from across the map and he went careening into a falling death.

damage: impact 15, flare bounces off, explodes on ground. Ground blast does 15 as well, but since it has a blast radius around the same diameter as the detonator (sometimes it feels larger, I'll have to experiment more with that) it is rare the ground blast does the full 15 damage due to the nature of explosive radius mechanics. If the target is hunkered in a corner or against a wall then they'll likely take the ground damage. In any case, it's a great tool to harass a clustered push. Softens 'em up for teammates.

All in all, while it isn't exactly underpowered but it ain't exactly powerful either. It gets the job done for what it is: a good harassment weapon. if you're lookin for more raw damage the other secondary weapons outclass it by a hefty margine. For dealin with pesky snipers or poppin off a flare against a runner just beyond flame thrower range or to be a general pain in the ass harassment heckler then this is the secondary of choice.

[Revising Ocelot]

The best part of the goggles is that it actually turns some maps into Pyrovision. Had the unfortunate luck to end up on 2fort, but the whole thing with goggles on turned into pastel colours and lollipops grew in the corners. The signposts turned into "MMMPH MMMPH".

Everyone doing high-pitched laughter when they die is pretty neat too.

[rpgdemon]

Anyone care to talk about the video, or is the general consensus that my opinion on it was incorrect? I'm genuinely curious about what other people thought of it.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

My opinion: A bit of an unexpected direction, but I think ultimately well-executed considering the hype and anticipation built up around it.

[Aerozord]

Anyone care to talk about the video, or is the general consensus that my opinion on it was incorrect? I'm genuinely curious about what other people thought of it.

not bad but, underwhelming. After sniper, spy, and medic it felt flat. Was just a single visual joke. Was a good joke but still just one joke that went on way after the punchline. Would have been better if it ended just a few seconds after pyrovision.

That and the build up didn't help. Would have had to have been amazing to be the Meet the Cast capstone, and it just wasn't. I probably would have thought better if this was around the time of Meet the Scout

[rpgdemon]

Yeah, that's what I thought, too, Aero. The joke was overdrawn, and it didn't have the depth that all the recent ones had. This felt lackluster in comparison.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

To be fair, any video wouldn't have lived up to pyro's mystique. If the video exposed who the Pyro was undoubtedly the response would have been that's it? That's who the Pyro is? Falls too short of all the hype! Rabble rabble rabble.

Yes it would have done better if it were an earlier Meet The video round scout's time but hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

The other 8 classes are pretty straight forward in what they are and do.

Sniper and spy are professional hit men/assassins. Hoovy is the big dumb brute with an equally big gun. Scout is a fast talking punk with a shotgun. Medic is a doctor in the loosest sense of the word who takes delight in healing and dealing pain and no regard to medical ethics. Demo man is a drunken sot who loves blowing shit up. Engie is the brains of the operation and soldier is for fight.

Pyro is the free radical shock trooper. That's his shtick and valve played it off pretty well by adhering to his twisted and entertaining mystique, all things considered. There'll be plenty of other opportunities to delve into his character. The comics have plenty of room to expand pyro's personality much like they have for the other classes.

[Loyal]

I'm not sure I agree that MtP should have been a "capstone" on the videos. There are hints that there are more to come, and we probably shouldn't regard the Pyro of all classes as most prominent like that. Heavy, maybe.

With that said, I'm fairly certain that there's absolutely no way MtP could have lived up to people's expectations, all considered. Besides being the "last" video, it's been crazy hyped for a long time. The only reason MtP might not be considered amazing is because Valve set expectations too high with the Spy and Medic videos. Compared to those two, Pyro might seem a little lacking. On its own it's fucking great.

On top of that, as Skweeb mentioned the Pyro is built on mystery, nothing ever being confirmed beyond an almost-childlike demeanor. We've had several years to build that mystery, for people to invent their own stories about who the Pyro is and what the Pyro does. Any revelation of that mystery will inevitably be Not-As-Good as what people have constructed for themselves, and not revealing it at all will be seen as an anticlimax. There's no way to win.

[Aerozord]

there were other ways to go about it, take Meet the Spy, it wasn't about the spy, it was about someone else talking about the spy.

They could have had people discussing like wild crazy insane theories about the pyro. Tell me you wouldn't love to see the soldier rant on about the Pyro's origin. In that video they brought up a single mystery, what goes on in the Pyro's head, then just straight up answers it.

[BB]

So, is anybody opening these scorched crates? I got three from the ash piles and no weapons at all (boooooo) and I have no means of opening them, if anyone would like to take them off my hands.

I've got a fair amount of metal if anyone is interested in palming off any weapon duplicates they have!

EDIT: Crates are gone, I'm still in the market for any of the new weapons though

[rpgdemon]

The thing is, they already took away the mystique and made a revelation, without committing to it. They said, "Here's the Pyro. This is who he is now, all your theories are wrong", but then didn't seal the deal by actually showing anything about him/her.

The revelation is, "The Pyro is insane and thinks he's in a sugary candyland". That is now the identity of the Pyro, and it destroys all other identities that fans might have had. But they didn't commit to it by expanding on his new identity, and instead played the entire thing off as a big joke, which was overextended, in my opinion.

If they didn't want to ruin the cool identities that people had of the Pyro, they shouldn't have made the Pyroland part, and it should have just been all the team members talking about him/her, while he/she does something really awesome. The way that they did it, they just pretty much took a wrecking ball to anything that the fans attributed to the Pyro's personality, poured a new foundation, and then didn't build anything on top of it.

I mean, on it's own, I still sort of liked the video, despite the overextended joke. In my post that was all spoiler tagged, I said as much. The last shot was a great moment. But that doesn't mean that taken within it's context, Meet the Pyro was what it should have been.

[Ramary]

Screw all this MTP talk.

I. HAVE. A. PARROT.

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/b/bb/Backpack_Bird-Man_of_Aberdeen.png
His name is Peckintalos, Lord of Soaring End. But I call him Peckers.

(I got him in one of them new crates, also a fancy lumberjack shirt for Heavy I want painted.)

[rpgdemon]

Also, I am very unhappy about the Gloves of Running Urgently change. It makes them WAY too painful to use.

Edit: But the new game mode is hella fun.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

I don't see what the big hubbub with the GRU change is about. It is folly to use them running to combat and not a good idea to run away from combat unless you're guaranteed to live due to the DoT. I use the GRU the way way I did before the change: run close to combat, pause to wind up out of view, step around the corner and unload four hundred thousand dollars of boolit.

Just plan ahead and stop a second or two before combat and let the debuff wear off. Conveniently reaching desired location sooner while fast running runs risk of gettin hurt along the way. It's a risk of danger with the reward of getting tubby to destination sooner. If anything the GRU outshined the other gloves far too much. No point in wearing the fists of steel to reduce ranged damage when you can just run faster, why wear the bear claws when you can just run fast and whip out gun? If anything the change brought the GRU in line with other gloves.

What I don't like is the tomislav destoyed to uselessness again. From 40% to 10% windup speed with with the same slow firing rate? Killed what semblance of fun that gun had after the first (and pretty much necessary nerf). It was in a good spot until now.

[Loyal]

If they didn't want to ruin the cool identities that people had of the Pyro, they shouldn't have made the Pyroland part, and it should have just been all the team members talking about him/her, while he/she does something really awesome.Do you have any idea how boring that would be? This is more or less what they did with Meet The Spy. Why repeat ideas?

[Shyria Dracnoir]

You could say its still more or less what they did, only with an even stronger emphasis on the second point.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Do you have any idea how boring that would be? This is more or less what they did with Meet The Spy. Why repeat ideas?

I actually think that Meet the Pyro is a deliberate spoof of Meet the Spy. It has a very similar set-up at the beginning and then abruptly takes off for FUCKING MAGIC~!

Also, I crafted the new Scout shotgun. It's amazingly fun. Not as deadly in a stand-up fight, but it has a longer-range and makes you mobile as fuck with a whole Focus meter.

[Aldurin]

The quick fix buff is one of the best tweaks on existing weapons, especially on low gravity servers.

[Doc ock rokc]

Hey it must be my lucky day! I got on the Source Filmmaker Beta

[Flarecobra]

I got one of those scorched boxes... wouldn't mind opening.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Just got my Rainblower and Lollichop. Working on getting the Orchestrina now.

[Locke cole]

Does the orchestrina send you to Pyroland? Either way, I like the idea of it. Same reason I like the Boston Boom Bringer.

[Loyal]

I got one of those scorched boxes... wouldn't mind opening.

I'm not sure of the full extent of what they contain, but I got a Dillinger's Duffel (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Dillinger%27s_Duffel) out of one. I imagine there are strange versions of the new Pyro weapons, if nothing else.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Does the orchestrina send you to Pyroland? Either way, I like the idea of it. Same reason I like the Boston Boom Bringer.

I believe all of the Pyroland items for the Pyro apply the effect. Only exception I believe would be the Scorch Shot.

HdXzlV-t8dw

Clean version of the Pyro's leitmotif of sorts. Definitely get Jaws vibes right at the start.

[rpgdemon]

Anyone want the scorched crate I got?

Edit: Aaand gone.

[Doc ock rokc]

Hey I got Source Film maker installed...Now i need an idea on what to do.

Im thinking maybe doing the beginning speech of Red Vs Blue with the engie being grif and Medic being simmons but I would like a more original idea if you have one.

[Arhra]

Wahooo, I got a random drop Rainblower.

My only complaint is that the endless stream of love and rainbows pouring out of it is a little distracting when you're trying to focus on huuuuuuuugs.

That and the maximum range seems to be a little deceptive.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Got another Scorched Crate, but I've hit my limit on key spending for the time being, so if anyone else wants it let me know.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

I'll take it off your hands, shyria~

[Doc ock rokc]

aruClBfp7vg

[Mr.Bookworm]

I have two scorched crates. I have ethical issues with the crate/key system (and I am also very, very broke), so does anyone want them?

Offer only valid until my wallet fills up and my values disappear, which will happen concurrently.

Annnnnnd gone.

[rpgdemon]

I've got a scorched crate if anyone wants it.

[BB]

aruClBfp7vg

Pretty nice! I'm curious roughly how long it took you to get to that point? The tutorials on the filmmaker website take about an hour to produce 6 seconds of film but he's spending a lot of time explaining things, so I'm curious roughly how long it takes on average to produce a segment of film when you're just getting on with it.

[Jagos]

Anyone want some old crates that I want to throw away? Dun care if you want to trade, I just want to be rid of them.

[Doc ock rokc]

Pretty nice! I'm curious roughly how long it took you to get to that point? The tutorials on the filmmaker website take about an hour to produce 6 seconds of film but he's spending a lot of time explaining things, so I'm curious roughly how long it takes on average to produce a segment of film when you're just getting on with it.

WELLL I was experimenting alot in that one and did at least 20 different takes.

If we count off all the experimenting then it's about a 30 min with all the experiments it was easily over 4 hours.

[Flarecobra]

I got an extra key that was given to me, so I'll take a box.

[Aerozord]

is there a way to just, delete crates?

while my desire to never waste anything makes that hard every time I unload half a dozen on someone I worry I'm feeding someones gambling addiction.

[Jagos]

You can delete crates just by selecting them but you might as well just trade them. Me? I'm just too lazy to delete them and I always get this last minute "meh" in actually doing it...

[rpgdemon]

I've still got one charred crate up for grabs, if anyone wants it. I don't want it to vanish, if there's anyone who is interested.

[Doc ock rokc]

You can delete crates just by selecting them but you might as well just trade them. Me? I'm just too lazy to delete them and I always get this last minute "meh" in actually doing it...

Yeah man. Same here I have like one of every single crate number.

[BB]

The burnt items and crates are dropping for one more week, up until this wednesday. Drops reset today and I have one scorched crate so I'm expecting to get another two this week. Anyone interested in buying three scorched crates over the course of this week? I'm interested in all the weapons released this update except the pyroland set since I have those already.

[rpgdemon]

Additionally, I still have two scorched crates if anyone wants 'em.

[Flarecobra]

http://www.teamfortress.com/triad/

Oh lookie, new items.

Looks like it's a bad time to be a spy, huh?

[Aldurin]

Definitely a "balanced" update, in terms of having as many good items added as bad items (new minigun is awful in terms of balance design and the Neon sign for pyro is just plain dumb).

But spies get an amazing way to guarantee heavy damage on level 3 sentry nests with this new sapper.

Also the guillotine is actually pretty good, despite what I said in my video over the triad update (will probably make a "hey this weapon isn't as dumb as I thought" video).

[Doc ock rokc]

The heavies minigun is torture for spies.

The Sign gets a little better when you learn it applys with all kinds of wet. meaning madmilk and jarate count...making scout-pyros combos hell.

The Red tape is both extreamly powerful and weak at the same time. It does Delevel sentries. but it takes ages to actually destroy them.

The Guillotine is a hidden gem. With the right aim it can decimate.

[Flarecobra]

I see the Red Tape being more a way to fuck with Engies then outright killing them.

[Loyal]

Supposedly you can just jump over the ring of fire for an easy bypass on level surfaces, but the Huo Long is still a stupid weapon continuing the worrying trend of the Pomson and Spycicle, existing for no purpose but to hard-counter a given class's primary counter. Also like them, it doesn't even have much of a downside. Ammo really isn't that hard to get ahold of, especially when you're close enough to make effective use of the Minigun's damage in the first place.

Red-Tape Recorder is a trololol Sapper. It's arguable that downgrading the Engineer's buildings by one or two levels might be preferable in a situation where you simply don't have the time to use a regular sapper to destroy them outright, as a lower level sentry simply can't hold up to pushes as well, and a degraded teleporter will severely reduce a team's ability to return to the frontlines. But even when its bugs get fixed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0gW__CMgz8), its current stats prohibit it from being used for any serious purpose other than in reaction to a stubborn/paranoid engineer you can't easily deal with. Interesting concept though.

Neon Annihilator is bad for the same reason the Sun-on-a-Stick is bad, in that it relies on the presence of other classes or environmental factors outside of the Pyro's control. Would be nice to have in those situations, but if it's all the same to you I'd rather just use the already-existing Axtinguisher, which does pretty much the same thing but with tools the Pyro can control.

Guillotine might need some balance tweaks, but it's a cool weapon.

[Locke cole]

De-leveling a Sentry can mean wonders for an attacking team. Getting rid of even just the rockets makes it easier for a Demo or Heavy or Soldier to blow the thing apart.

[Aerozord]

new minigun is crap, heavy is the slowest class, why give them a point blank weapon.

Not sure about the new sapper, if it works so fast an engie cant smack it off in time than it greatly weakens the class because it guarantees dropping it down to a level 1. Then most classes can just destroy it and we all know how huge of an investment a sentry is. Its why without support and a full engie nest a spy is more annoying to an engie then able to solo him.

Though if its just as fast as the normal sapper than its useless. Why de-level when you can de-stroy

What I'd do to balance it is, in addition to its current stats, make it work just abit slower than the time it takes to destroy the sapper but sapper itself has a cool down. Forcing the engie to make a choice between destroying the sapper or killing the spy. If they go after the spy they cant remove the sapper without losing a level, if they focus on the sapper the spy has time to get away. It would be best as an oppertunity weapon to use when the engie is out getting supplies. Usually they are close enough that they can still remove a sapper, but if it takes as long as I suggest than its automatically one level down

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

new minigun is crap, heavy is the slowest class, why give them a point blank weapon.

Every heavy weapon is a point blank or close range weapon. The heavy is a close range class to begin with. If you're trying to fight at long ranges as the heavy you're not doing it right.

His miniguns have always had devastating close range power and severely crippling drop off for distance.

[Loyal]

What I'd do to balance it is, in addition to its current stats, make it work just abit slower than the time it takes to destroy the sapper but sapper itself has a cool down. Forcing the engie to make a choice between destroying the sapper or killing the spy. If they go after the spy they cant remove the sapper without losing a level, if they focus on the sapper the spy has time to get away.

The engineer has more buildings than just the sentry, and an inability to sap all three in succession would make the Recorder worthless.

Also, as it stands it's already quick enough, even after the nerf, to nearly guarantee at least one lost level regardless of how quickly the Engineer works, provided at least two buildings are sapped. More if you sap all three. The slowness people complain about is the time it takes to eliminate a building that has already been reduced to level 1.

It would be best as an oppertunity weapon to use when the engie is out getting supplies. Usually they are close enough that they can still remove a sapper, but if it takes as long as I suggest than its automatically one level downIf the engineer is out gathering supplies, the stock Sapper is already a better choice anyway.

[Aerozord]

Every heavy weapon is a point blank or close range weapon. The heavy is a close range class to begin with. If you're trying to fight at long ranges as the heavy you're not doing it right.

His miniguns have always had devastating close range power and severely crippling drop off for distance.

Heavy was originally designed as a mid-range class, and for suppressing fire. I dont see how this weapon is all that effective. Heavy with it out is running towards me, fine I back peddle and shot him dead because his only actual secondary weapon is the shotgun.

I suppose its useful for crowd control since it can hit alot of targets at once but not only can a pyro do that already but has the speed to chase down retreating enemies

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Heavy was originally designed as a mid-range class, and for suppressing fire. I dont see how this weapon is all that effective. Heavy with it out is running towards me, fine I back peddle and shot him dead because his only actual secondary weapon is the shotgun.

I suppose its useful for crowd control since it can hit alot of targets at once but not only can a pyro do that already but has the speed to chase down retreating enemies


Um... Aero? What are you even talking about?
The new minigun doesn't do any less damage than a regular one.
It consumes far more ammunition, but it does the same damage.

If a regular minigun would have killed you this would too.

[Loyal]

Every element of the Heavy's design points to close-range suppression centered around area-denial. The Minigun is most effective in close ranges, by a tremendous factor, because it's basically a full-auto shotgun, firing four bullets per ammo consumed with a wide cone of fire. At mid-range it still does fairly effective damage, but with the Heavy's very slow movespeed, the best you can hope for at mid-range is to force the enemy to flee or pick off low-health/stupid players.

The Huo Long's flames are not designed to add to the Heavy's DPS, though opportunities will always present themselves. They are designed for area-denial, nothing more, and targeted toward Spies specifically. It is possible to keep this thing revved up indefinitely if you're hanging around a level 3 dispenser, thereby making sentry nests much harder to crack if a Huo Long Heavy chooses to stay in the area.

In short, if you're running a Huo Long to chase after enemies and set them on fire, you're doing it wrong.

On a side note, one of the reasons the Pyro is considered so weak is because it doesn't have the speed to chase enemies and relies on ambushes.

[Flarecobra]

Actually, Pyro is just as fast as the Engie, Sniper, and Spy. The only two faster are the Scout and the Medic.

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Speed#Speed

[PyrosNine]

I think what Loyal's trying to say that is that because my weapon is short range, and I move at the exact same speed as my main targets, I can only actually catch them if I can ambush them.

If I'm 10 feet away from a Sniper/Spy, who sees me and runs, no matter how much I run after him there will always be 10 feet in between us where my flamethrower can't reach him and he can always turn around to fire a quick potshot at me.

Even if I am faster than the demo, the heavy, the soldier (but not the doctor?) there's still the issue that until I can close the distance to to major damage, I'm an easy target. So, until the Pyro gets stealth abilities or some sort of air compression blast boost jump, Pyro get shafted in a straight on offensive.

All the Pyro gets is the satisfaction that occasionally, the sock will be on the other foot and someone will try to ambush the Pyro and die horribly, but since the Pyro's only good in close quarters and never too far from a home base/check point, Pyroing becomes like fishing.

[Geminex]

I think what Loyal's trying to say that is that because my weapon is short range, and I move at the exact same speed as my main targets, I can only actually catch them if I can ambush them.

If I'm 10 feet away from a Sniper/Spy, who sees me and runs, no matter how much I run after him there will always be 10 feet in between us where my flamethrower can't reach him and he can always turn around to fire a quick potshot at me.

Even if I am faster than the demo, the heavy, the soldier (but not the doctor?) there's still the issue that until I can close the distance to to major damage, I'm an easy target. So, until the Pyro gets stealth abilities or some sort of air compression blast boost jump, Pyro get shafted in a straight on offensive.

All the Pyro gets is the satisfaction that occasionally, the sock will be on the other foot and someone will try to ambush the Pyro and die horribly, but since the Pyro's only good in close quarters and never too far from a home base/check point, Pyroing becomes like fishing.

In regards to the speed problem, have you tried wearing the gas jockey set? that gives you +10% move speed, making you the second fastest class in the game. I rarely leave home without it.

[Ramary]

In regards to the speed problem, have you tried wearing the gas jockey set? that gives you +10% move speed, making you the second fastest class in the game. I rarely leave home without it.

The issue with that is you lose puff n' sting. You also still need that hat for it.

[Geminex]

The issue with that is you lose puff n' sting. You also still need that hat for it.

Nyah, I find the puff n sting damage isn't really necessary. Your flamethrower deals some pretty powerful DOT, and you can use your secondary for burst damage. I'm currently running degreaser, reserve shooter, powerjack, with the hat for the set bonus, and I'm loving it.

[Aerozord]

On a side note, one of the reasons the Pyro is considered so weak is because it doesn't have the speed to chase enemies and relies on ambushes.

as flare pointed out, only two classes are faster. also by this logic the heavy IS a poorer choice. He is the slowest class. If the pyro being slow is such an issue how is the heavy a better choice?

Note: I get what you mean by area suppression I just dont get the logic of this particular point

[Locke cole]

Nyah, I find the puff n sting damage isn't really necessary. Your flamethrower deals some pretty powerful DOT, and you can use your secondary for burst damage. I'm currently running degreaser, reserve shooter, powerjack, with the hat for the set bonus, and I'm loving it.

Problem is that many things can extinguish afterburn. I prefer the standard Flamer. But I'm not very good, so...

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

as flare pointed out, only two classes are faster. also by this logic the heavy IS a poorer choice. He is the slowest class. If the pyro being slow is such an issue how is the heavy a better choice?

Because the Pyro has to catch people, the heavy does not. The Pyro's DPS requires far closer ranges and is not as high as a mini gun toting Heavy. A revved up heavy can dish out enough DPS to murder you damn near instantly at close range. He provides either a solid area denial or a slow methodical march through enemy defenses. The pyro is far more dynamic and less easily ambushed.

Like... how are these questions? Do you play TF2? Have you not seen a Heavy stomp his way through a base by systematically murdering every person who dares step into his line of sight?

[Doc ock rokc]

as flare pointed out, only two classes are faster. also by this logic the heavy IS a poorer choice. He is the slowest class. If the pyro being slow is such an issue how is the heavy a better choice?

Note: I get what you mean by area suppression I just dont get the logic of this particular point

All Defensive classes are good at area denial or suppression. The Engie with the sentry. The Heavy with his bullets. the Demo with his sticky bombs. all of these are good stoppers in combat.

[Flarecobra]

Never seen me get kills using the flare guns, have ya?

[Locke cole]

Man, why do I never manage total rampages when playing a Heavy offensively? It's like I only notice a class's downsides. I only feel the Scout's fragility, not his power or speed. Only the Heavy's long-range failure and slowness, and very rarely hos power. Only the Pyro's range issues, not his... um... moving on...

[Geminex]

Never seen me get kills using the flare guns, have ya?

Flare gun's damage output is lacking at mid and long range. Even if you hit all crits, you're dealing barely over 50 DPS. Which isn't bad at the very long ranges, but not enough to make up for the pyro's weaknesses at mid range, which is where the game is most often played.

Like, the flare gun is very useful, but the fact that it's possible to kill at longer ranges with it does no by any means not make the pyro a CQC class.

[Flarecobra]

It's not always about the DPS. Sometimes it's enough to make one stop and go "Where the hell did that come from?", thus making them a sitting duck.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Flare gun's damage output is lacking at mid and long range. Even if you hit all crits, you're dealing barely over 50 DPS. Which isn't bad at the very long ranges, but not enough to make up for the pyro's weaknesses at mid range, which is where the game is most often played.


This isn't WoW's DPS love-me-meter. Such a silly thing to say in a game focused around team coordination.

You're not factoring in the flaregun's greatest strength: it is one of the select weapons that are not subjected to damage ramp up or drop off at any range. If you hit a player point blank with it it'll do 30 damage with DoT. If you hit a player across the map it'll do 30 damage with DoT. It is a reliable harassment weapon if you've practiced enough with it to be familiar with flare velocity and arc. The fact that it crits on burning targets is the cherry on top.

As what Flare said, the flaregun is a harassment weapon. In fact a lot of what the pyro does is harassment and ambushing. A push can be delayed or altogether shattered with a well timed pyro popping out of nowhere.

[Loyal]

This isn't WoW's DPS love-me-meter. Such a silly thing to say in a game focused around team coordination.Even if this made any sense as an argument (Exactly what do you think the teamwork is to accomplish, if not to facilitate killing the enemy more effectively with the damage you deal?), this is a completely irrelevant statement that doesn't even adequately address the point of what you quoted. Namely: that Pyro becomes largely a sitting duck out of close range and the Flare Gun, while helpful in alleviating this, does not reduce his reliance on his Flamethrower/Melee to actually kill shit.You're not factoring in the flaregun's greatest strength: it is one of the select weapons that are not subjected to damage ramp up or drop off at any range. If you hit a player point blank with it it'll do 30 damage with DoT. If you hit a player across the map it'll do 30 damage with DoT. It is a reliable harassment weapon if you've practiced enough with it to be familiar with flare velocity and arc. The fact that it crits on burning targets is the cherry on top.Uh... no?

The strength of the Flare Gun is that it gives the Pyro some means of damaging enemies at ranges even his Shotgun wouldn't help at, and that it gives him a good spike of burst damage when combined with fire. The effectiveness of this spike rapidly degrades over time, I might add.

The fact that it has no fall-off or ramp-up doesn't make up for the fact that that a non-crit deals a grand total of 30 damage, less DPS than a well-aimed Syringe Gun at most ranges. And this without considering that you need to lead your target increasingly well, and hope they don't change direction, in order to hit at all once you get out of effective shotgun range.

You do not use a Flare Gun as a primary weapon. It is a complete nonfactor in his ability to ambush things. The Pyro's secondary weapons exist to complement his weaknesses, with the Flare Guns adding a harassment option and the Shotguns giving him a more well-rounded close-range game. The Flare Gun is useful for irritating campy Snipers and Engineers out of cover, for picking off fleeing targets (they tend to move in straight lines), and for offering a nice one-two punch against 125 HP classes. It is possible to harass, and annoy, and even kill enemies at technically infinite ranges, but it's not going to turn you into a Sniper or a Soldier and you are not going to do anything, psychologically, to the enemy except say, "Hey, look at me!"

[Aerozord]

its been awhile since I played with you guys, so maybe it wasn't flare. But I remember someone making quite a few across the map kills with the flare gun. Gun itself doesn't do alot of damage but dont underestimate those mini-crits

[Locke cole]

Full crits, actually, unless you're using the Detonator.

[Arhra]

Although the Detonator is also quite fun when people don't realise you can shoot them around corners with it!

And there's one or two maps where it lets you flare-jump to unexpected places.

[Geminex]

It's not always about the DPS. Sometimes it's enough to make one stop and go "Where the hell did that come from?", thus making them a sitting duck.
If your enemy's response to getting shot is to stand very still in order to figure out where they got shot from (as opposed to evading or taking cover), then your enemies probably just aren't very good.

And in response to Skweed, what Loyal said. I never claimed the flare gun was not a highly useful weapon. It gives the pyro some long-range capabilities, it's a competent harrasser, it can provide covering fire on approaches (against snipers in particular), and it is remarkably useful in close combat as well.

But the fact that the flare gun doesn't suffer fall-off doesn't change the fact that, at long range, you'll be dealing 30 damage per hit plus afterburn in slow intervals. Yes, you can harrass with it. But a 30-damage flare that might not even hit every two seconds isn't something something to fear. Chip damage is nice, but healing is very prevalent in this game. And most combat classes are far, far more reliable than you at long-range damage. The soldier does more damage than you per hit with more reliability because splash. THe demo is a long range beast, even if he's out of GL range. And even heavy with his massive damage fall-off still does around 30dps at long range, though that drops off the further he gets out. Snipers are long range experts, wrangler engies are beasts at long range and even spies can outfight you at range if they have an ambassador.

And while yes, this game is focused on teamwork, if you're counting on eliciting a reaction from your enemies by dealing damage, the amount of damage you're dealing is relevant. And in a sustained battle (such as a long-range engagement), DPS is a pretty good way to gague exactly how much you can do. And the pyro, at long range, with the flare gun? He can inconvenience the enemy. And harrass them. But he's worse at that than the majority of combat classes, and, and this is the crux, there's other things he does better.

We're talking about the pyro's role as a whole. And his role is not ranged combat. He is CQC. The ability to harrass enemies at range doesn't change that. And neither does the fact that sometimes you can get kills at long range too.

And that's all I was saying in the first place.

Edit:
This isn't WoW's DPS love-me-meter. Such a silly thing to say in a game focused around team coordination.
Also, could you maybe not patronize people in a discussion about video games? This was kinda rude.

[Aerozord]

you dont think the flare gun is lethal? It crits when target is on fire, which if I recall is 90 damage for that weapon. Two hits is 120 damage plus afterburn. Two hits kill low HP classes at range. Not saying thats amazing (if it was it would be unbalanced) but I wouldn't say its only good for harassment.

[Jagos]

Aero... It does not crit that high...

[Ramary]

Yes it does.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Normal: 30 with 3 hp every half second for 10 seconds
Mini-crit: 41 with 4 hp a tick
Crit: 90 and i think 4hp each burn. I dont recall off the top of my head

[Aldurin]

And for tonight's homework assignment . . . (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Flare_gun)

[Jagos]

It's a mini-crit when the target is on fire. But I can't look at the stats right now since I am at work. What Aero it's doing is assuming the best conditions for a flare which is giving the wrong idea of what the gun is good for: harassment.

The pyro's job is to cause disarray in a push or ambush people not watching their flank. The flare is meant to give him long range capability so that he can make snipers lose their aim, or force people to look for health. It's not dominant at long range, not is it meant to be. That's the point I'm making.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Well, now the neon annihilator isn't entirely a gimmick weapon. It can now destroy sappers much like the homewrecker can, just doesn't get the bonus damage against buildings.

Still not enough to budge me away from scout's sandman + flying guillotine fun times.

[Flarecobra]

Guess I'll have to see if I can get the Neon Annihilator then, just to change up my Vintage Homewreaker.

[Ramary]

Meanwhile.....

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j426/Ramary/tf2tank.jpg

Something wicked this way comes.. (http://www.teamfortress.com/gray/)

[Locke cole]

It's a mini-crit when the target is on fire.

If you're using the Detonator.

The vanilla Flare Gun fully crits.

[Aerozord]

It's a mini-crit when the target is on fire. But I can't look at the stats right now since I am at work. What Aero it's doing is assuming the best conditions for a flare

as was said its full crit when on fire, and thats not best conditions, with no drop off and 100% crit on flaming targets (which is any target hit by flaregun) two consecutive hits with the flare gun is 120 damage + afterburn. The programming of the game makes it so this will always be the case.

[Flarecobra]

And if you're good enough, you can pop off those two shots, then move to another position, or move to finish him off.

[Aldurin]

It actually allows the pyro to snipe, too. I've been able to pick off engineers because they'd expose themselves to a second shot in desperation to repair their building.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8kwibwb1a1qcn852o1_500.png

Seems that the map update also brought along this huge Carriers that have been appearing in said map’s skyboxes! If you click through to the wiki page, you can see just how they look against each maps skyline!

What will these giant mechanical behemoths bring to the world of TF2? We can only wait and see.

Man vs Machine in the next update? A new game mode? Maybe it’s just a troupe of Jawas jumping into alternate universes to bring the mercs a large selection of droids at a decent price?

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc230/Shyria_Dracnoir/jawas-sentry.jpg

[Flarecobra]

Bot revolt mayhaps?

[Ramary]

Well....that happened. (http://www.teamfortress.com/bloodbrothers/)

[Locke cole]

The "evolving page" thing worked marvelously. It's great at turning otherwise dramatic moments into absolute nonsense one change afterwards.

[Aerozord]

probably because I am so used to traditional comics I found it more distracting than anything. Used to a more steady flow.

Though on the topic I am expecting some unified boss battling personally. I will say this if they do something like scrap the current red vs blue dynamic and actually advance the plot I will be incredibly impressed.

[Locke cole]

I think it's Man vs Machine. Robot bosses.

"Young man! Are you mechanically inclined?"
"Aheh. Yes, you could say that."

[Loyal]

I'm pretty sure we've established for awhile that Redmond and Blutarch are just figureheads and Helen's running the show, as far as Red vs Blue is concerned. Considering there was a third life-extender machine (http://www.teamfortress.com/loosecanon/13.html) built there's a good chance she (or her ancestor) outfitted Gray personally and sent him after his brothers.

e: in unrelated news, the owner of Golden Wrench #92 was was offered 16 unusual Engineer hats in exchange for destroying it. (http://steamcommunity.com/id/Dell/screenshot/578952670263349022/)

[Arcanum]

There's also the full version of Zephaniah Mann's will right here. (http://www.teamfortress.com/mannwill/)

[Flarecobra]

Wonder what other secrets this gravel holds.

[Aerozord]

Wonder what other secrets this gravel holds.

I just realized. "gravel" is probably what he called Australium

[Geminex]

I just realized. "gravel" is probably what he called Australium

No. Gravel is just gravel. In the TF2-verse, australia is the only place with australium. America just has gravel. Loads and loads of tiny rocks. Redmond and Blutarch think it's fuel.

But no. It isn't. The teams, as far as we know at this point, are fighting and dying for the sake of lots and lots of small rocks.

[Aerozord]

No. Gravel is just gravel. In the TF2-verse, australia is the only place with australium. America just has gravel. Loads and loads of tiny rocks. Redmond and Blutarch think it's fuel.

But no. It isn't. The teams, as far as we know at this point, are fighting and dying for the sake of lots and lots of small rocks.

I was referring to this (http://www.teamfortress.com/mannwill/), a "miracle" gravel found in australia.

the brothers dont understand this and think plain old gravel is what their father found.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

e: in unrelated news, the owner of Golden Wrench #92 was was offered 16 unusual Engineer hats in exchange for destroying it. (http://steamcommunity.com/id/Dell/screenshot/578952670263349022/)

I was scootin' about when the alert went across all servers.

The response was a unanimous "wut?"

[Aerozord]

each one destroyed makes the remaining ones more valuable. Plus as an untradable sure there are those that feel, if I cant have it NO ONE CAN

[Flarecobra]

Hey, it's his thing. What he does is his business.

Anyway, any new thoughts about that Kong King map?

[Loyal]

each one destroyed makes the remaining ones more valuable. Plus as an untradable sure there are those that feel, if I cant have it NO ONE CAN Aero, does anything seem wrong, to you, with juxtaposing "more valuable" with the word "untradable"?

[Bells]

BTW fellas, the Gray is coming...

http://www.teamfortress.com/gray/

[Loyal]

I just realized, between frames 12 and 13. (http://www.teamfortress.com/bloodbrothers/#f=12) Is Gray perhaps an forefather to a Spy?

[Revising Ocelot]

A passing hint of the Gman, too.

Not like that'll ever amount to anything in the next 5 years, though. If ever.

[Flarecobra]

Wait, Gman... Grey Mann...

O_o

[Arcanum]

BTW fellas, the Gray is coming...

http://www.teamfortress.com/gray/

So hey, Bells:


Something wicked this way comes.. (http://www.teamfortress.com/gray/)

Also all that other comic stuff that was being talked about for the past few pages.

[Bells]

http://img.pokemondb.net/artwork/slowpoke.jpg

Really can't excuse myself on that one...

[Aerozord]

Aero, does anything seem wrong, to you, with juxtaposing "more valuable" with the word "untradable"?
not at all. Value doesn't mean just monetary value. In this case its collectors value. The few of an item there is the more status and e-peen the collector has.

Take it to the logical extreme, there is one left. What was once one in a hundred is now a one of a kind item that you and only you will ever possess.
Wait, Gman... Grey Mann...

O_o

though isn't G-man a fan name?

[akaSM]

Ok...if G. Mann is the G-Man this would link yet another Valve Source game to Half Life...

[Flarecobra]

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/The_G-Man#Behind_the_scenes

No, Valve gave him the name.

[Aldurin]

Time to keep an eye out for other crossovers in Counterstrike: Global Offensive and DOTA 2. Then all of the Valve universes will be one.

[Revising Ocelot]

Time to keep an eye out for other crossovers in Counterstrike: Global Offensive and DOTA 2. Then all of the Valve universes will be one.

The Dota Sniper's got you beat there already, half the stuff he says is from TF2.

[rpgdemon]

Left for dead is already same universe?

[Aldurin]

Left for dead is already same universe?

Well obviously Australium exposure mutated the common cold into the zombie virus. The result of a deal between Mann Co. and Aperture Laboratories to try to find more uses for the stuff.

[Jagos]

Uhm... Could have sworn that Valve always said the worlds were related...

[Doc ock rokc]

IT BEGINS! (http://www.teamfortress.com/mvm/)

[Bells]

well, now that's just absolutely awesome...

[Aerozord]

I sense a steam night in our future

[Locke cole]

Oh my god. That was amazing.

Those robots are going to be really dangerous, if you let a Heavybot get all the courier powers.

[Bells]

Kinda makes me wonder where Spy and Pyro are...

[Jagos]

I think it's more to do with the fact that their weapons are more close range than what it could do in game. You can't really burn a bot and should it be fair to crit stab a huge robot with a Spy?

[Locke cole]

Upgradable weapons are a think in this mode, so perhaps an upgrade will let you burn robots/stab robots.

And I can imagine that you can sap robots. Also: (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32261979&postcount=7)

[Bells]

Guess the trailer just focus on the fact that it's 6 player coop, which i'm fine with.

It's Left 4 Fortress!!

[Locke cole]

Left 4tress.

[Wizardcat]

Seems more like Killing Floortress 2.

[Locke cole]

Monday Night Fortress might be the best analogy.

[Flarecobra]

I wonder if we get to choose color.

And my other thought... what would be the proper fuel mixture to make those things melt....

[Aerozord]

thermite?

[akaSM]

The name Mann vs Machinne sounds oddly familiar...no, not because the man vs machine thing but, I think I remember reading that name somewhere...

[Bells]

If we get to play this when it launches and each player only gets to pick one of the classes, i'm calling dibs on Engineer. My Famous Awkward Deployments Placement will probably mean the team will die, but i'll be safe away in my Sentry-Dispenser-Corner-Fort.

[PyrosNine]

So, just read the Mann vs Machine plot, and I just have to say one thing.

Hippie Bidwell is kind of hot.

Also, I can totally set fire to robots to death because they're powered by MONEY. Gold, Silver, and the dollar bill have low melting points! I'm literally sapping them off power. And then I'm melting them because my fire is actually a type of hellfire that feeds on men and robot's souls alike. Then, I just take the molten remains and sell that for scrap and I get my money for upgrades.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Posting this because I feel Pyro's expression speaks for all of us

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc230/Shyria_Dracnoir/mvmreactions.png

[Aerozord]

anyone else notice their terms for the robots are the community names for various class load outs?

[Flarecobra]

So, just read the Mann vs Machine plot, and I just have to say one thing.

Hippie Bidwell is kind of hot.

Also, I can totally set fire to robots to death because they're powered by MONEY. Gold, Silver, and the dollar bill have low melting points! I'm literally sapping them off power. And then I'm melting them because my fire is actually a type of hellfire that feeds on men and robot's souls alike. Then, I just take the molten remains and sell that for scrap and I get my money for upgrades.

And watch as they have no afterburn ability.

Personally, I'm aiming for napalm. Not only does it burn for a long time, that stuff's sticky as hell.

And who said their money was made from gold, silver, or paper? What if they use platinum, which has a melting point of over 3200*F?

[Locke cole]

NO.

I can only take so many works using platinum as a plot point for an army of robots.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

NO.

I can only take so many works using platinum as a plot point for an army of robots.

Wut

[Loyal]

Can't wait for it to go live.

Just fantastic.

[Doc ock rokc]

dibs on the exploding black man or the stoic medic man

Also We are gonna have ONE robot that we call shaz and that we are gonna keep alive.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

dibs on the exploding black man or the stoic medic man

Also We are gonna have ONE robot that we call shaz and that we are gonna keep alive.

Voting to make it one of the sea mines on legs sentry busters. They're so stupid it's hilarious

[Locke cole]

Wut

Korra.

[Flarecobra]

NO.

I can only take so many works using platinum as a plot point for an army of robots.

It's been stated that it's powered by money. Platinum is used as a form of currancy.

[akaSM]

What if...

They're powered by...

GRAVEL

[Aldurin]

Mann, I want to play this mode SO HARD now.

[Flarecobra]

thermite?

No, that makes lousy ammo for a flamethrower. I'm thinking napalm.

Thermite though can work as an alternitve version of the flare gun though.

[Aerozord]

dibs on the exploding black man or the stoic medic man

medic is more manic than stoic. but sure both will be useful.

I'd be hesitant to go spy though. I am more of a harassment spy, taking out teleporters, taking out key targets, and occasional pot-shot. Intentionally agitating the enemy so they waste time and resources trying to deal with me instead of advancing.

Cant really do that with AI. They dont get annoyed or distracted

It's been stated that it's powered by money. Platinum is used as a form of currancy.
really? who uses platinum?

by the way, anyone else find it odd its 6 players? Wouldn't 9 make more sense for those that like to play one of each class?

[Shyria Dracnoir]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8qjafTz7w1qhvkkio1_1280.png

:3:

[Aerozord]

is it odd my immediate thought was "why would he steal a catering van"

[Revising Ocelot]

is it odd my immediate thought was "why would he steal a catering van"


HA HA HA! OKTOBERFEEEEST!

[Flarecobra]

really? who uses platinum?


The major platinum bullion coins include the American Platinum Eagle, the Canadian Platinum Maple Leaf, the Australian Platinum Koala, the Isle of Man Noble, the Chinese Platinum Panda and several series by the Soviet Union and later by the Russian Federation.

There ya go.

[BB]

If only engineers still had EMP grenades!

[Revising Ocelot]

If only engineers still had EMP grenades!

There's probably going to be EMP grenades in CODBLOPS2.

Those games are 100% grenades.

[rpgdemon]

Shouldn't day two be happening? Anyone know what's going on?

[Loyal]

Pretty sure it's not till 7 or 8 EST.

That is to say, either 5 or 65 minutes from now.

[Locke cole]

Or later, considering that it's Valve we're dealing with.

[Flarecobra]

Yeah, 8 Eastern.

[Ramary]

Well it is Valve so....between now and 8pm EST....tomorrow.

[Flarecobra]

You know, I have to wonder... This line in perticular.

This also means don't go sprinkling quicklime on every corpse you see. Some of them won't be corpses. Just cowards.

What is the point? I know quicklime is used to blind people... and can set things on fire if water is applied...

...nevermind, answered my own question.

[Loyal]

Seeing how the update is supposed to go live on the 15th, I guess we won't see anything on the site till tomorrow.

[Locke cole]

It's a 3-part update. To be more specific, a 3-day update, and the 3rd day is the day it releases. I can rest assured that we'll get day 2 on... well, day 2.

[Aerozord]

There's probably going to be EMP grenades in CODBLOPS2.

Those games are 100% grenades.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/aerozord/grenades.jpg

[Revising Ocelot]

Seeing how the update is supposed to go live on the 15th, I guess we won't see anything on the site till tomorrow.

Valve operate on Pacific time remember.

They'll update at 11PM, when it's... 6AM here. (Actually, it's 2:27AM right now. Stop keeping me awake.)

[Bells]

22:30pm here...

This space time continuum thing is not working out for me...

[Flarecobra]

Seeing how the update is supposed to go live on the 15th, I guess we won't see anything on the site till tomorrow.

Seeing as it's ment to be a teaser...

[Locke cole]

She's up and running, gentlemen! (http://www.teamfortress.com/mvm/mercs/)

[Loyal]

I wonder how you could upgrade the Caber...

[Locke cole]

Increase blast radius.
Increase damage.
Reduce self-damage.
Increase/reduce self launching distance.
Regenerate explosive.

[Aldurin]

The fact that the Spy can backstab giant robots is awesome, unfortunately their hitbox size means that you probably won't be able to facestab them.

[Arcanum]

http://media.steampowered.com/apps/tf2/tobor/upgrade_ui.jpg

[Flarecobra]

I think I'll be utilizing Soldier more, or Sniper. Or Engie.

[Doc ock rokc]

I think I will be going Heavy more.

[Ramary]

Surprising absolutely no one, I will play scout for one reason and one reason only. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-7v4qnHP8)

[Geminex]

As usual, I will be dusting off my best Attendant and going pyro on those jerks' asses.

I can't wait to see the possible flaregun upgrades. It'd be cool to have it as a more viable option for mid-long range combat.

... no it isn't yet
the ability to deal 126 damage in 2 seconds if you land 2 consecutive hits does not make it a reliable long-range weapon dammit
people move between shots you know
and you get outdamaged at midrange by anyone with a damn shotgun
grumble grumble grumble

Edit2:
Buuuut passive-agressiveness aside, are there any EU people around who wanna play a couple of rounds together when this comes out?

[Locke cole]

Best thing about them Scout boosts is that all the money anyone grabs is shared evenly among the team, so A: there's a very good reason to have a Scout darting in and grabbing loadsamoney, and B: There's no worries about a Scout darting in and grabbing loadsamoney so that nobody else can upgrade.

[Aldurin]

Being able to upgrade the caber means that it will take a ton of willpower to switch to any class that isn't Spy, since Demoknight will be amazing (especially if they designed good upgrades for the Wee Booties.)

[Bells]

If it is confirmed that you can't have repeated classes in the same match, it becomes very strategic. I mean, your scouts and Spys need to be damn good, Engis need to be able to reposition on the fly, Pyros need to find the right places to to crowd control and Sniper goes picking strays and anti-buildings, leaving Demo and Soldier to deal heavy damage while Heavy and Doc do their thing....

I mean, if you can have multiple classes in a match, you'll know you're screwed when you jump in a map and your team is made of 5 scouts...

[Aerozord]

I just realized, might be hard to have a NPF night, we'd have to find a completely empty server running this

if we do though I say we got someone spectating and do a whole commentary on the match

[Aldurin]

if we do though I say we got someone spectating and do a whole commentary on the match

That implies not playing Mann vs Machine. I don't like that.

[Aerozord]

I am willing to make that sacrifice, just unsure how well it will turn out. My computer is getting on in years

[Shyria Dracnoir]

I can easily do both, but make sure we have a proper schedule so I know when to restock the booze.

[BB]

Engineer with widowmaker + 3 uses of kritz canteen = 15 seconds of non-stop shotgun crits. I think engies are going to be pretty essential in this mode regardless, but even without upgrades that kind of firepower is pretty immense!

Then again, looking at the upgrades available to the nade launcher, if they can justify +100hp on kill on a splash damage weapon capable of two-hit killing most classes without it making the game too easy, we're going to need all the firepower we can get.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

As usual, I will be dusting off my best Attendant and going pyro on those jerks' asses.

I can't wait to see the possible flaregun upgrades. It'd be cool to have it as a more viable option for mid-long range combat.

... no it isn't yet
the ability to deal 126 damage in 2 seconds if you land 2 consecutive hits does not make it a reliable long-range weapon dammit
people move between shots you know
and you get outdamaged at midrange by anyone with a damn shotgun
grumble grumble grumble

Edit2:
Buuuut passive-agressiveness aside, are there any EU people around who wanna play a couple of rounds together when this comes out?

As it currently stands the flaregun isnt viable for mid to long range. In MvM the upgrade list directlystates the flaregun will be upgradeable to be deadly at long range.
Specifically how remains yet to be determined. Considering its the pyro's only weapon with good range to it they apparently want the pyro to have some ranged viability instead of being pigeonholed as knockback only character. Granted that's one of his primary roles, but by no means should it be his sole purpose in all play

[Geminex]

Yeah, the feeling I get is that pyro will be combined crowd-control/harrassment. Flare gun and flamethrower to set hordes of bots on fire, airblast to keep them away from your allies and flare crits to kill high value targets

[Loyal]

The Scorch Shot is going to be ridiculous.

[Locke cole]

Guys.

Phlogistinator + Uber Canteen.

What robot horde?

[Loyal]

Something I just noticed. On the Day Two page, there appears to be a sixth canteen, but the flier was ripped/shot off the wall.

[Ramary]

Just in case it is not obvious to everyone, when MvM comes out tonight, everyone pile into steam chat to see if we can get a game running (we won't but we might as well try and use our can-do spirit!)

[Bells]

the most difficult part will be to sync our times

[Doc ock rokc]

I AM SO FREAKING READY! (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16065019/Audio/Music/Mann%20vs%20Machine%20-%20Extended.mp3)

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

I wonder if they'll put in a system like l4d in terms of gettin a group together. Would be the most logical way of going about it, i'd say.

[Ramary]

I wonder if they'll put in a system like l4d in terms of gettin a group together. Would be the most logical way of going about it, i'd say.

There is something like that for finding servers with your friends right now in TF2 so I imagine that is how it is gonna work.

[Wizardcat]

If you guys haven't noticed, yet: http://www.teamfortress.com/mvm/bounty/

[Doc ock rokc]

ITS ALIVE!!!!!

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Map Page for Day 3 update, "Decoy" (http://www.teamfortress.com/mvm/decoy/)

EDIT: It's back! (http://store.valvesoftware.com/product.php?i=S0240)

[Bells]

It is?! We need a Steam Group event STAT!

[Locke cole]

What do you think of the "$0.99 ticket to get into special Mann Co. servers that run several MVM games back-to-back, and eats the ticket to give you a cosmetic item that can't be obtained outside of these servers, requiring you to buy another one for another mission"... thing?

Thankfully, single-round, normal games of MVM require no cash whatsoever.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

If I honestly want any of the cosmetic MvM stuff, I can count on the item farmers/traders.

[Revising Ocelot]

What do you think of the "$0.99 ticket to get into special Mann Co. servers that run several MVM games back-to-back, and eats the ticket to give you a cosmetic item that can't be obtained outside of these servers, requiring you to buy another one for another mission"... thing?

Thankfully, single-round, normal games of MVM require no cash whatsoever.

Sounds like one of those Call of Battlehonour "Premium" services. Fuck that. Never spent cash on the store. Won't be spending cash on this.

[Aerozord]

What do you think of the "$0.99 ticket to get into special Mann Co. servers that run several MVM games back-to-back, and eats the ticket to give you a cosmetic item that can't be obtained outside of these servers, requiring you to buy another one for another mission"... thing?

Thankfully, single-round, normal games of MVM require no cash whatsoever.

still more ethically valid than mann co crates.