Gay People And Their Right To Militarize - Page 6

Loyal · 02-02-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yrcrazypa

Well, for one, not everyone in the military is in combat. There are a large number of people in the military that could go over twenty years of only ever firing a weapon for training. And you'd be surprised anyway, some people would care, the bigots that they are. Remember, bigots don't have to use logical thinking, because bigotry is illogical in the first place.

I said I find it silly.

Ecks · 02-02-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funka Genocide

yes but goodness is not an objective state of being. it's definition is culturally based.

Just because you or I might agree or disagree does not change the cultural outcome.

My only problem with this is that we don't have a way of factoring in political and governmental corruption. What is good in the eyes of our culture can be perverted by special interest groups and money-grubbing government employees to play on the fears of the uneducated masses.

Hence, one day "Iraq is not a factor in this, Afghanistan is where bin Laden is hiding!" is the government's official statement and the next day it's "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, so let's light THEM up!"

Premmy · 02-02-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funky Old Man

yes but goodness is not an objective state of being. it's definition is culturally based.

Just because you or I might agree or disagree does not change the cultural outcome.

If we decide as a culture that something that happens or has happened is bad, Hopefully we will move to not do it again in the future.

The "Why say anything anyway, it does'nt have any effect" disregards that drawing attention to the issue and it's flaws makes people aware of it, which is important in cultural/psychological/ sociological issues. Less so in economical/medical/governmental issues, in those cases action is more important than awareness.

Funka Genocide · 02-02-2010, 07:35 PM

I'm more trying to make the point that idealistic rabble rousing on internet forums only serves to either:

A: Endear yourself to people who share your ideals.

or

B: Aggravate people who aren't as idealistic.

It's nice and good and great to try and think globally or whatever it is the academia are up to, but functionally speaking without a broad enough audience and a sturdy enough platform you're just pissing in the breeeze.

In order to attain that sort of audience, you pretty much need to be in politics, but then you'd lose the autonomy necessary to be idealistic.

Karl Marx had some great ideas, but look where that got us.

Also, there's no need to factor in "corruption" since idiocy is just another facet of a population. If people are ignorant enough to fall for a bullshit ploy like that, then they just are. It'd be nice if everything were black and white and all the good choices had a neat little sticky note next to them with a "sign here" written on it, but that's not the case.

Fuck, you might be able to make the case that making a global resource grab in the face of impending scarcity is the best decision for America. Pulling one over on the populace to get the green light might be the best decision. It's not as though you could just come out and say "Well, you know petroleum? The material basis for our entire society? Yeah... we're a bit low. So how about we go steal some?"

So long as people cling to their cultural identities and associate themselves with nations, you will always have these sorts of outcomes. And while from an idealistic viewpoint it might be best to just abolish all boundaries and work together in some big hippy commune, how precisely to you hope to accomplish that?

Premmy · 02-02-2010, 07:37 PM

You're confusing trying to save the world with having a discussion on a forum, and that's sad.

Professor Smarmiarty · 02-02-2010, 07:43 PM

[QUOTE=Funka Genocide;1011841]Well ok, that's pretty true, but also self evident. A person in the military is just a pawn of the government, which in turn operates on the (implied) behalf of society.

Practically speaking, unless you can apply some form of condemnation to an entire society that actually makes it change, your criticisms are useless and seemingly pointed in the wrong direction. You can call all military personnel nationalist pig dogs, but you're not going to accomplish anything. [/QUPTE]
I'm not insulting people in the army but the army itself. That's why I want it abolished.
And all those poor people who needed the job in the army? They can have some of the trillions of dollars they just saved.

Quote:

I'm sure you can draw comparisons between Nazis and the American military, but any that imply something meaningful (rather than the fact that they both killed lots of people) is going to most likely be completely farcical. To my knowledge the American military of the 20th and 21st century hasn't participated in any pro-active genocidal efforts. I mean sure we've killed a lot of people with perhaps flimsy justification, but again that's what America wanted, and so functionally speaking that is "good".

Well America is effectively genociding large parts of the world, just because they not shooting them with guns doesn't mean they are not. Rest of the major powers have been doing it for longer.
I've been over the whole Nazis aren't really villains things quite recentely on this forum though so it's a bit of a rehash.

In summary: army=bad, people int he army= not bad (necessarily).

Funka Genocide · 02-02-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premonitions

You're confusing trying to save the world with having a discussion on a forum, and that's sad.

Moreso, I'd just prefer a little accountability for the words people choose to express their ideals.

Premmy · 02-02-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funka Genocide

Moreso, I'd just prefer a little accountability for the words people choose to express their ideals.

Are you an activist of some kind?

Ecks · 02-02-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

Well America is effectively genociding large parts of the world, just because they not shooting them with guns doesn't mean they are not.

Yeah, just like Liam Neeson said in some DC Comics movie a year or two back, Economics is the sophisticated weapon of the future.

Funka Genocide · 02-02-2010, 07:49 PM

well this thread got all kinds of derailed, so it's probably best if someone start a more pertinent thread on the subject.

Personally, I fucking hate the military. Hated every god damn day I spent in it, every shit eating grin I ever saw on the faces of the god damn monkeys that drank the fucking cool-aid and every self righteous tirade I ever had to endure because someone had shiny shit on their shoulder.

but ultimately, as the world exists now, it is a necessary implement. The poor sops that spend their days getting shot at are necessary sacrifices to the status quo.

02-02-2010, 07:35 PM	#54
Funka Genocide Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,566	I'm more trying to make the point that idealistic rabble rousing on internet forums only serves to either: A: Endear yourself to people who share your ideals. or B: Aggravate people who aren't as idealistic. It's nice and good and great to try and think globally or whatever it is the academia are up to, but functionally speaking without a broad enough audience and a sturdy enough platform you're just pissing in the breeeze. In order to attain that sort of audience, you pretty much need to be in politics, but then you'd lose the autonomy necessary to be idealistic. Karl Marx had some great ideas, but look where that got us. Also, there's no need to factor in "corruption" since idiocy is just another facet of a population. If people are ignorant enough to fall for a bullshit ploy like that, then they just are. It'd be nice if everything were black and white and all the good choices had a neat little sticky note next to them with a "sign here" written on it, but that's not the case. Fuck, you might be able to make the case that making a global resource grab in the face of impending scarcity is the best decision for America. Pulling one over on the populace to get the green light might be the best decision. It's not as though you could just come out and say "Well, you know petroleum? The material basis for our entire society? Yeah... we're a bit low. So how about we go steal some?" So long as people cling to their cultural identities and associate themselves with nations, you will always have these sorts of outcomes. And while from an idealistic viewpoint it might be best to just abolish all boundaries and work together in some big hippy commune, how precisely to you hope to accomplish that? Last edited by Funka Genocide; 02-02-2010 at 07:43 PM.

02-02-2010, 07:37 PM	#55
Premmy Stop the hate Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a nice web on fifty first street Posts: 4,466	You're confusing trying to save the world with having a discussion on a forum, and that's sad. __________________ Drank

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02-02-2010, 07:49 PM	#60
Funka Genocide Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,566	well this thread got all kinds of derailed, so it's probably best if someone start a more pertinent thread on the subject. Personally, I fucking hate the military. Hated every god damn day I spent in it, every shit eating grin I ever saw on the faces of the god damn monkeys that drank the fucking cool-aid and every self righteous tirade I ever had to endure because someone had shiny shit on their shoulder. but ultimately, as the world exists now, it is a necessary implement. The poor sops that spend their days getting shot at are necessary sacrifices to the status quo.