My Little Pony: Friendship is Mafia

[Solid Snake]

Oh, and there's also this.

As a general rule, modkills are designed to be as disadvantageous to the player and their faction as possible. A modkill on Town will end the Day (thus preventing them from lynching), and a modkill on any kind of scum will keep the Day going (so that the Town can ideally lynch another scum).

From: This website. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Modkill)

Like actually I think this Modkill ending D1 was more advantageous to Town than the alternative option (Modkill + D1 lynch) would have been, but that's my opinion. Those are the actual rules.

[Sifright]

Fair enough I recant my previous testimony. I clearly need to rules lawyer better :P

Edit: I've actually not read through the rules list very throughly i'm going to go correct that oversight now.

[Nikose Tyris]

To be fair this is the first time you've even mildly refuted the SK role I've cast you in.

SOMETHING TO HIDE, SNAKE?! [DUN DUN DUUUUUN]

[Revising Ocelot]

Lynching the self-proclaimed Doctor when nobody else has stepped forth to claim "that's bullshit, I'm the Doctor" is town-suicidal. It's also unlikely that one of our two non-posters is the Doctor as that'd let the fake Doctor run free, and they've been active.

Either the scum don't believe Sifright is the Doctor, or they believe him and are delaying a night kill to avoid verifying his claim and deter suspicion.

I've already got HoS on Nikose, but this reinforces it.

[Revising Ocelot]

Oh, and because of all that I believe Sifright is telling the truth.

[Sifright]

RO I am "Doctor whooves" but I'm not actually a town doctor like my character name is "Doctor whooves The doctor" Which from what i'm wikied is supposed to be a reference to doctor who but i'm not actually the town doctor like i have no power role ability.

the only thing i started with was knowing that Karesh is fluttershy

[Revising Ocelot]

Oh, and both Sif and Snake have edited posts. I thought that wasn't allowed, same as deleting posts?

[Solid Snake]

To be fair this is the first time you've even mildly refuted the SK role I've cast you in.

SOMETHING TO HIDE, SNAKE?! [DUN DUN DUUUUUN]

Pssshhh.

Hey Nik think logically for a second.
(I know this is difficult for you.)
If I'm SK and I win if everyone is dead.
Do I advocate the option in which only one person dies D1?
Or do I deeply prefer Sifright's logic and a D1 in which the SK actually "gains the most" by offing two schlubs?

(Also the fact that the SK would have benefited tremendously from the abnormal possibility of two D1 deaths is another, albeit minor, reason to be against Sifright's preferred solution.)

In the end, though, I'm more interested in hunting Mafiates right now than the SK, Mafiates are the greater threat, particularly now that the Cult is apparently gone. Also, before N1's writeup the existence of an SK wasn't even confirmed, and why waste time debating hypotheticals D1 when I can hunt Cult and Mafiate roles I know exist?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Big football game, dont have time to go through the backlog

[Solid Snake]

Ocelot: Fenris' rules are less strict than mine. I'm not sure if I'm personally a fan of being able to edit, but if others are editing I have to take similar liberties to keep on par.
Also, Sifright has claimed "the Doctor" (as in Doctor Whooves, a character) but not "the Doctor" (as in the role that heals people), unless I'm mistaken. He's said he's Vanilla.

[Nikose Tyris]

And I doubt his claim.

Also, Snake- The fact that you've switched tactics to personal insults means I literally have no choice but to:

VOTE: SNAKE

Cause your attitude is pissing me off.

[Solid Snake]

Man I thought we had some playful ribbing going on Nik
But now I'm insulted by your inability to take my playful insults in stride
What has happened to our friendship Nik

[Sifright]

I've only edited posts where i've brain farted to make things more clear and I always always make sure to either bold or make it explicit with EDIT: XX

[Nikose Tyris]

THIS FRIENDSHIP IS OVER.

[Solid Snake]

THIS FRIENDSHIP IS OVER.

NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s)

[Verifiedz]

VOTE:NIKOSE

[Verifiedz]

EDIT: I already know how to write it in both white and bold! My fantastic elder brother told me so, and through the magic of shared experience is imparting his literary wisdom upon me. My writing ability and verbosity has increased eleventyfold.

[Nikose Tyris]

Verifiedz, you are not old enough to vote, you should know better.

Edit: put <B> at the start and </B> at the end.

Edit 2: hahaha I'm retarded. Change those < and > to [ and ] Respectively.

[Revising Ocelot]

Even if he doesn't have an actual power role, a scum could have claimed "that's bullshit" to Sif's character claim to cast suspicion. That they haven't implies to me that they're trying to be more subtle.

I dunno, Sif's suicide tactic reminds me of RPGDemon in the HS Mafia when he started getting pressured by Fenris (who was scum), which is what Nikose is doing right now.

[Verifiedz]

VOTE:NIKOSE at the start and

[Verifiedz]

Pray tell, what is wrong, good sir? What the flip?

EDIT: Nikose, I most sincerely am. You simply do not want me to vote for you because you are in the mafia.

:wtf:

[Nikose Tyris]

Comparing Fenris and Nikose:

A horrible idea. I'm pretty sure Fenris is insulted. [He's not even online right now, just in class, he suddenly stopped and went "Someone just compared me to Nikose, Imma ban that fucker tonight."]

[Solid Snake]

hahaha I'm retarded.

I'm glad you've said this so I can just quote you instead of "insulting you" next time.

Like I'll be making a point and I'll be like
"Assuming Nik was capable of rational thought...
hahaha I'm retarded.
...He'd realize that..."

[Nikose Tyris]

Here just quote me:

VOTE: NIKOSE

And the vote will show up. Hit the quote button and use that.

Also UNVOTE: NIKOSE Delete that on your post.

[Sifright]

verifiedz you need to type this [ b ]Vote: XXXX[/ b ] With out the spaces inside the square brackets.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm honestly doing my best to explain it to him.

[Solid Snake]

Man I really hope everyone else shows up here because so far D2 is just a bust compared to D1

[Verifiedz]

But good Nikose, I already did! Simply direct your browser back one page and you may lay your eyes upon it yourself.

Forsooth.

[Nikose Tyris]

Clearly an editted post!

VOTE:VERIFIEDZ!

[Verifiedz]

Clearly an editted post!

VOTE:VERIFIEDZ!

Plebeian.

[Sifright]

Vote:Nikose

For several reasons firstly his urge to kill a townie as a way to role confirm which is pretty insane. Secondly that said urge is centered on me. Thirdly because he's acting suspicious as hell.

[Nikose Tyris]

Kerblucket.

See I can make up words too.

[Nikose Tyris]

Oh Sif, you know all the words to make me all tingly. <3

[Sifright]

I don't know whether to laugh feel violated or smirk. well played

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Somehow I don't feel threatened by Verifiedz, guy can't even work the forum, he'd probably make a terrible mafiate. However I would like to ask him to stop editing his posts. Kind've against the rules dude.

[Revising Ocelot]

Has Kerensky suddenly hijacked Verifiedz' account? o_O

[Geminex]

Friendships torn asunder

Brother turned against brother!

Thrills!
Excitement!
Action!
Betrayal!
Ponies!

All this and more on tonight's episode of...
Whoofdunnit?
A pony mafia production.


Seriously, though, guys. I really don't think voting nikose is smart. Like, I don't know the dude, but as far as I can tell, he is try to get himself voted out. His behavior is blatant, his logic is horrible, and I think roles that benefit from self-destructing exist. If we lynch him, we waste a lynch.

[Nikose Tyris]

Eh, it's more an unwritten rule on the whole editting post- and his brother handled most of it. I'm actually okay with giving him epic slack. [He's like not even a teen yet.]

UNVOTE: VERI Cause I'd actually feel bad for trying to get him lynched. He's still just a little, fat baby.

[Verifiedz]

Somehow I don't feel threatened by Verifiedz, guy can't even work the forum, he'd probably make a terrible mafiate. However I would like to ask him to stop editing his posts. Kind've against the rules dude.
it is? oh sorry

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm just all sorts of crazy. xD Who's gettin' lynched today, then? I've got 2 votes so far. I'm still thinking Sif might be a good choice but apparently nobody else agrees with me.

Like if we can point to a legitimate target that isn't ass-stupid [As discussed earlier with RO] that'd be awesome.

[Verifiedz]

Eh, it's more an unwritten rule on the whole editting post- and his brother handled most of it. I'm actually okay with giving him epic slack. [He's like not even a teen yet.]

UNVOTE: VERI Cause I'd actually feel bad for trying to get him lynched. He's still just a little, fat baby.
do you want me to put a picture of ur msn on npf?

[Revising Ocelot]

I'm just all sorts of crazy.

I've been checking out the wiki a bit, and that sounds like Jester talk to me!

[Verifiedz]

actually sorta think its geminex, but i despise nikose so im sticking with my vote.

[Geminex]

In regards to the 'lose our lynch on D1', I've kinda considered that as well. On the one hand, yay, we didn't have to kill anyone!
On the other hand, fuck, we didn't get to kill anyone.

I guess the major question is "would there have been anyone we really wanted to kill?".

I kinda don't think so. Nikose, maybe, but other than that, we didn't really have a concrete target. So I'm good with it.

Also, verified is doing the Jekyll/Hyde thing. Alternately well-spoken and, well, 11. It is frightening.

Edit:
You think what's me? The jester?

[Verifiedz]

In regards to the 'lose our lynch on D1', I've kinda considered that as well. On the one hand, yay, we didn't have to kill anyone!
On the other hand, fuck, we didn't get to kill anyone.

I guess the major question is "would there have been anyone we really wanted to kill?".

I kinda don't think so. Nikose, maybe, but other than that, we didn't really have a concrete target. So I'm good with it.

Also, verified is doing the Jekyll/Hyde thing. Alternately well-spoken and, well, 11. It is frightening.

Edit:
You think what's me? The jester?
i think your a viligant.

[Sifright]

Hey HAWK! I'm Watching you, like a hawk!

[Geminex]

Why don't you watch him like a sifright?

And veri, that's stupid. Also, if you're town, you're stupid to accuse anyone of being vig. Because that knowlege is only valuable to mafia.

Edit: Unless you are mafia?

[Verifiedz]

oh. im just geussing. or am i? nobody fucking knows.

[Solid Snake]

It's like all the intelligent people in D1 have had their minds erased and have been replaced by unintelligent people
And, well, there's Geminex.
Say Geminex, if you had to vote someone out D1 and only your vote would have counted, who'd you choose? Nik? Someone else? And why?

[Sifright]

Did... did you just call me stupid as well? I... why, why would you do that? :(

[Nikose Tyris]

Last night went amazingly well for us, despite the day one Town kill. Cult dropped by a unison attack by Mafia, SK and Vig. Today, we kill a mafia or verify an immune to nightkill, and we begin working through each suspicious individual we can.

it's a 2TownBlind vs 1 Mafia Targetted vs SK doesn'tcare targetting here. If the SK drops, Odds are in our favor.

Either we launch an attack with a 'suspicion' and risk missing, reducing Town's odds; We attack a roleclaim that verified a second roleclaim, negating the need for a PO stepup to cover anyone and get a confirmed un-nightkillable [Karesh]; Or someone stupidly comes forward, confesses PO and points, directing some accuracy to our hate tomorrow if he's lying or killing a mafiate today.

I'm not really seeing any good options, to be honest. So I've fallen back to just being silly because really, I don't want to make a potentially wrong decision.

[Verifiedz]

Last night went amazingly well for us, despite the day one Town kill. Cult dropped by a unison attack by Mafia, SK and Vig. Today, we kill a mafia or verify an immune to nightkill, and we begin working through each suspicious individual we can.

it's a 2TownBlind vs 1 Mafia Targetted vs SK doesn'tcare targetting here. If the SK drops, Odds are in our favor.

Either we launch an attack with a 'suspicion' and risk missing, reducing Town's odds; We attack a roleclaim that verified a second roleclaim, negating the need for a PO stepup to cover anyone and get a confirmed un-nightkillable [Karesh]; Or someone stupidly comes forward, confesses PO and points, directing some accuracy to our hate tomorrow if he's lying or killing a mafiate today.

I'm not really seeing any good options, to be honest. So I've fallen back to just being silly because really, I don't want to make a potentially wrong decision.
HAHA "for us". even though a town membe died. nothing else happened. MAFIA

[Sifright]

Like I don't want a PO to out himself to save me if it's choice between that and me being lynched fuck me I have no powers and i'm not worth the PO suiciding to ensure i don't die.

[Verifiedz]

[/B]SUPER VOTE:NIKOSE[/B]

[Verifiedz]

yeah bold isnt working on m ipod

[Nikose Tyris]

Hey Veri

Three Cultists died at night. That's called extraordinarily well.

Lrn2play.

[Nikose Tyris]

Also- I don't actually want a PO reveal that would be terrible, and we all know that.

[Verifiedz]

oh nvm

[Sifright]

we've got a real problem alright and a banjo is the only answer. That and lynching nikose.

[Verifiedz]

we've got a real problem alright and a banjo is the only answer. That and lynching nikose.
HELL YEAH

[Geminex]

Say Geminex, if you had to vote someone out D1 and only your vote would have counted, who'd you choose? Nik? Someone else? And why?

Hmm. Nik would've been an attractive target because of all the... well, stuff. He is disruptive. Most of his ideas and arguments, so far, seem to have been counterproductive, but I still get the feel that he wants us to lynch him. I might've done him the favor, but only if no better targets popped up.

I guess I was kinda suspicious of bookie, but he defended me against nikose which a mafiate wouldn't have done, so I don't think I would've gone for him.

Who else? I don't think I woulda lynched Sif, though the Dr. Whooves thing is still really suspicious. Particularly since he still hasn't posted his flavor text. What's up with taht, Sif?

Karesh is cool. You're cool, for now. Smarty? Seemed to be on our side, though I wasn't taken in.

I have a hunch that bard might be up to something, mostly since I'm almost certain he's lurking the thread.

But tbh, I prolly would've gone for Nikose, mostly cause nobody else was suspcious enough. Might still. Let's see how this day turns out.

Also, were you complimenting or insulting my intelligence back there?
Though if I have to ask, I should maybe assume the latter. :p

[Sifright]

I haven't posted the flavour text because it's against the rules.

[Sifright]

Would be nice for Fenris to confirm that for me

[Solid Snake]

Also, were you complimenting or insulting my intelligence back there?

Complimenting, actually. It was like "The thread was filled with dumb shit, and then Geminex, like a ray of sunshine, showed up and started saying smart things."

Also, let me put my vote to good use.

VOTE: Julford Hajime
Reasoning: He's inactive but Fenris hasn't looked for a replacement for him like he has others, which means he's scum.

[Verifiedz]

Complimenting, actually. It was like "The thread was filled with dumb shit, and then Geminex, like a ray of sunshine, showed up and started saying smart things."

Also, let me put my vote to good use.

VOTE: Julford Hajime
Reasoning: He's inactive but Fenris hasn't looked for a replacement for him like he has others, which means he's scum.
smart.... i have to stick with nik for now though.

[Nikose Tyris]

@Snake: That's the most logical thing I've read all day. Sway me a bit more for Julford?

[Geminex]

Hmm. Aren't there other inactives that have yet to be replaced?

And for that matter, why can't mafia be replaced?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Either we launch an attack with a 'suspicion' and risk missing, reducing Town's odds; We attack a roleclaim that verified a second roleclaim, negating the need for a PO stepup to cover anyone and get a confirmed un-nightkillable [Karesh]; Or someone stupidly comes forward, confesses PO and points, directing some accuracy to our hate tomorrow if he's lying or killing a mafiate today.

What's this "un-nightkillable" anyway? Who's said anything about that? Was there a memo I missed?

Hmm, I'm kinda unsure who I think is scum at this point. I have vague suspicions, but absolutely nothing concrete. I trust absolutely none of you.

[Oron]

Okay, after getting out of class and reading through everything... I don't know.

I bet Verifiedz was swapped in for a regular, inactive townie role. Fenris made the comment about people actually getting their roles in on time, so I'm inclined to believe that all players with roles are actually playing this game at this point in time.

The same logic could most likely be applied to RevOcelot.

Sif's claim and posts Day 1 were odd to me, but I still don't feel like lynching him because of that proposal he had to lynch him.

Given Snake's last post, should we target the inactive player? We've been going over whether an inactive player, town or scum, can really bring any harm to us. Although I did skim through that section of posts during class, so I could have missed parts of or misread that section. Weren't most of us against lynching the inactives for now?

[Oron]

By most I mean "three or so of the then actively posting players."

Also, it seems I have a knack for being very slow at posting.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Hmm. Aren't there other inactives that have yet to be replaced?

And for that matter, why can't mafia be replaced?

I would also like an answer to this.

[Verifiedz]

@Snake: That's the most logical thing I've read all day. Sway me a bit more for Julford?
so your trying to take the attention of yourself? NIK IS FUCKING MAFIA

[Nikose Tyris]

Veri, am I mafia if I even breathe to you? I'd just like confirmation.

[Revising Ocelot]

They're not inactive, they're just not posting.

[Geminex]

HE POSTED SOMETHING

ONLY SCUM WOULD DO THAT

EDIT:
Oh, I see. They're still acting, so tehy don't get replaced, but tehy're not posting, which means they either have a power role, or they're scum.

Mind you, snake, what if Julford does have a power role? Like doctor or vig or whatever, and he's just keeping quiet?

[Nikose Tyris]

@Hawk: karesh's way of talking regarding the whole "fluttershy" thing definitely implied he was un-nightkillable.

[Oron]

They're not inactive, they're just not posting.

Oh. I thought Julford was the one who wasn't even on the forum lately.

[Verifiedz]

Veri, am I mafia if I even breathe to you? I'd just like confirmation.
NIK BREATHED! MAFIA

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

@Hawk: karesh's way of talking regarding the whole "fluttershy" thing definitely implied he was un-nightkillable.

Hmm, ok, not sure on that one. Job for the vig maybe?

[Revising Ocelot]

Oh. I thought Julford was the one who wasn't even on the forum lately.

He was on the forum on the 27th, which was a Day 1... er... day.

[Sifright]

Yea i'm going to disagree with Snakes reasoning because it's complete bullshit. There is no reason mafia can't be replaced.

[Aldurin]

Please Verifiedz, just stop. This thread already hurt enough to read before you started using minimal logic to try to start a bandwagon on Nikose.

Also, killing players who make role claims is not necessarily a good idea unless we have reasonable suspicion that they're lying.

[Sifright]

So let me get this straight you want to vigilante to attempt to night kill a townie. To prove that he is unkillable during the night. I'm not seeing how that makes sense hawk.

Please people explain to me how their actions aren't screaming "what the fuck" at you.

[Geminex]

Yea i'm going to disagree with Snakes reasoning because it's complete bullshit. There is no reason mafia can't be replaced.
Yeah. But he's not being replaced. That means that fenris is either a lazy fuck, or Julford has actually been doing stuff. It's kinda proof that he's lurking.

Snake is making the connection between lurker and mafia.

That's partly logical.

[Oron]

Hmm, ok, not sure on that one. Job for the vig maybe?

Maybe, but Karesh claimed to be Fluttershy, and I didn't see that name show up in the Night 1 summary. I interpreted his role more as "regular townie, but can't be nightkilled/culted." Like, he was supposed to draw the attention of scum so that they'd waste a night action on him.

Sif - Hawk's post didn't come across to me as "the Vig should try killing Karesh to test his claim." More like, "could Karesh be a Vig?"

[Sifright]

Given that snake claimed earlier it's possible for mafia to have a 'watcher' role it's even more stupid because the mafia assuming they have that role could watch karesh to find out who the Vig is, not to mention there is no guarantee that Karesh is immune to an element of harmony being turned on him it's a stupid risk to take.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm in agreement with Sifright, though less forcefully so. If Sifright went down, it would confirm Karesh is Fluttershy, who is suspected to be the Un-Nightkillable role- and would at least be confirmed town [Because Fluttershy is town. There's no way she's not and nobody disagrees with me on that]. His claim was essentially a way of saying "can't be nightkilled."

So let's NOT test that firing theory lest the mafia decide to do that for us and find out it was potentially a bluff. Why waste the vig kill and do two blind kills?

[Sifright]

Ok so how do you interpret "Karesh claimed to be unkillable job for the vig?"

Like what the fuck how do you interpret it as anything other than "Yo vigilante go murder karesh trololol"

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

It was just a random thought but it kinda makes sense. If Karesh is unkillable then we can now confirm it. The fluff that Fenris gives us will show the vig attacking karesh, and if karesh is still around in the day, he's confirmed town.

Of course it does waste a vig kill. And this is assuming karesh even is unkillable, which he never outright said.

[Nikose Tyris]

Wait, Elements of harmony? What role do they play in this game?

[Sifright]

Yeah. But he's not being replaced. That means that fenris is either a lazy fuck, or Julford has actually been doing stuff. It's kinda proof that he's lurking.

Snake is making the connection between lurker and mafia.

That's partly logical.

No it's proof that Fenris doesn't have enough people willing to replace the people who aren't active, I grant that it's possible he is around and is just lurking to avoid suspicion but at this point it would be foolish of him to continue that trend it's vastly more likely fenris just doesn't have any one to replace him with I mean we were supposed to start with 25 players keep that in mind.

[Nikose Tyris]

Sidenote: If multiple people suspect Karesh is unnightkillable, lets not test that.

The only way to confirm ANY of this would be Sifright dropping with evidence. Thus why I'm pushing on Sifright- even if we lose ONE town today, we get a confirmed trust source for the whole town [Karesh], Who we don't have to worry about being corrupted/misleading the town on purpose.

I agree that Veri is probably a 'Nilla Townie because he's a latecomer and was a random replace, and I really agree with the Julford stuff.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok it seems I can't keep up with these posts. And I never knew about any possible watch role, so that alone probably makes it a bad idea. Scrap that plan then.

[Revising Ocelot]

Hm, thinking about Julford. If he was Mafia, he'd have been active on the 28th or another Night 1 date. Then again, Bookie got mod kill'd for spotting people PMing each other. Maybe that scared Julford?

(Apologies if I'm metagaming too much here)

[Geminex]

No it's proof that Fenris doesn't have enough people willing to replace the people who aren't active, I grant that it's possible he is around and is just lurking to avoid suspicion but at this point it would be foolish of him to continue that trend it's vastly more likely fenris just doesn't have any one to replace him with I mean we were supposed to start with 25 players keep that in mind.

Yeah, the 'lazy fuck' comment was a) ribbing (love ya, fen) and b) badly phrased, I meant to account for all DM-side factors with it. Sure, it might be that fenris hasn't found replacements. But there's also a possiblity that Julford is actually doing stuff. Mind you, even if he is lurking, we don't know if he's scum or SK or even a power role.

I never said I agreed with it, it's pretty shaky. But the logic is there.

[Oron]

No it's proof that Fenris doesn't have enough people willing to replace the people who aren't active, I grant that it's possible he is around and is just lurking to avoid suspicion but at this point it would be foolish of him to continue that trend it's vastly more likely fenris just doesn't have any one to replace him with I mean we were supposed to start with 25 players keep that in mind.

Wouldn't it also be suspicious for him to just start talking now that we've assumed he's lurking?

[Sifright]

Either he is inactive or he to start talking at some point.

I mean during snakes mafia game my computer was completely boned and I had to buy a new one i was the town doctor and inactive he was even going to replace me I think i missed the first day *not sure*

I guess what I'm trying to say is there are legitimate reasons for him having not posted yet.

Edit: Fuck I ramble when i type posts quickly in the future i'm going to write posts concisely and to the point so hopefully no more quick posts from me

[Aldurin]

FoS: Verifiedz

He is either the worst townie ever or the worst scum ever. I can't tell which. I am slightly leaning toward scum because of how hard he was trying to vote Nikose, trying to get attention off of himself.

Anyways, that vote will come at a later day. So what are our major suspects again?

[Sifright]

Well never mind, I wanted to form a voting power base with myself and Karesh but fuck it. I've decided it's best the town gets a trusted source that they can use to vote safely with.

Unvote: nikose

Vote: Sifright

Suiciding all up in this mother.

[Aldurin]

Oh, watch your edits, I get the feeling Fenris may flip out and modslaughter a bunch of people if this keeps up.

[Nikose Tyris]

MAJOR SUSPECTS:

NIKOSE for being a random twit and accusing a bunch of people of things. [somewhat accurately according to Day 1]

VERIFIEDZ for being ridiculously crazy as listed already by you, Aldy. [Unlikely target because he's a new swapin]

SIFRIGHT because he's quite possibly town but to confirm another townie because of it, who would be invulnerable to our night enemies.

CHUCKLES THE SILLY PIGGY wait no he's not even in this game

JULFORD HAJIME for being an inactive bugger.

I think that's everyone?

[Sifright]

Vote for Sifright every one! I run on a campaign of cup cakes for all!

[Revising Ocelot]

Well never mind, I wanted to form a voting power base with myself and Karesh but fuck it. I've decided it's best the town gets a trusted source that they can use to vote safely with.

Unvote: nikose

Vote: Sifright

Suiciding all up in this mother.

What.

You are literally being RPGDemon. Stop that.

[Sifright]

like seriously if you guys doubt me in the slightest fucking murder my ass to prove karesh is the fluttershy because it's clear to me we aren't going to create a voting base that is at least less likely to be tainted with out doing so if people won't trust me

[Geminex]

Anyways, that vote will come at a later day. So what are our major suspects again?

Fillies and gentlecolts, it's time for... the lineup!

Our first contestant, Nikose! Disruptive behavior early on earned him the ire of townies everywhere, but can it be that he's turning over a new leaf? Only time will tell!

Our second contestant, Veri! Our youngest player and boy does he show it, but what he lacks in grammar he makes up for in passion! His attempts at bringing down Nikose seem transparent, but is there more to him than meets the eye?

Our third contestant, Sifright! Involved in not one, but two controversies that earned him the (some might say well-deserved) suspicion of several players. But despite not being modkilled and revealing Karesh's role, is he really just good old Dr. Whooves? Who knows!

Aaaand there's our contestants for tonight. Fillies and gentlecolts, take your pick!

Edit: Oh, and Julford.

[Sifright]

If i'm mafia this would be retarded tactic this only benefits me if i'm town as long as town win it doesn't matter if i die. The only real reason i have not to be killed is for the selfish purpose of continuing to play but i'm willing to sacrifice my self to help the town

[Revising Ocelot]

Alright, fair enough.

I'll go by my word. VINDICATION.

##vote: RPGDemon

So, pretty much I was entirely right, and you all disbelieved me?

SUPER VINDICATION.

Do not copy this man, Sifright. He lost the game for Town.

[Geminex]

Hmm. Sif. If you want us to vote for you, why are you saying you aren't mafia?

Edit: I mean, of course you get to defend yourself, but if you think it's best for town for you to die, you'd try to get their votes.

[Sifright]

Vastly different circumstances his was the last day of the game. His death was nothing more than defeatism, I go to my death knowing that i will give the town a trusted and true friend that they can use to help secure safety for all

[Solid Snake]

Yea i'm going to disagree with Snakes reasoning because it's complete bullshit. There is no reason mafia can't be replaced.

Psh, think before you spew nonsensical statements.
It isn't 'complete bullshit.' Mafia can be replaced, just as townies can; that's the entire logic behind my vote!
The fact that Fenris hasn't attempted to replace Julford means two things:

1: Julford has been inactive here.
2: Nonetheless, Julford has in some way satiated Fenris' concerns that he's still participating in Mafia. Meaning, he's not doing any pro-Town activity and participating here in public, but he may be exchanging messages with scumbuddies privately.

This is classic scum behavior.
And you are behaving like classic scum in accusing me of "bullshit reasoning" when my reasoning's rock solid. Defending Julford for a reason, Sifright?

And let's clarify a few things about this position:

* Those who have been replaced may be Scum or Town. We can be reasonably sure they're not SK given that the SK did submit a kill. But they can be Mafiates, as Mafiates can also be replaced if they're like, going on vacation or just completely non-responsive to PMs or e-mails from scumbuddies.

* No, I don't want to actually necessarily vote Julford out. But voting him started a discussion, which is good for now, particularly since most halfway decent posters have been inactive lately. Voting Julford (or Fawful, maybe) out is smart so long as we find no other credible leads. If this day's an absolute waste because everyone just keeps speculating on meta bullcrud, at least we can kill an inactive who, worst case scenario, is an unimportant Townie role that Fenris feels fine not replacing.

(Also, remember this: Fenris said that all power roles submitted actions. So, worst case scenario, if Fawful and Julford are truly inactive Townies, they're just 'Nillas. But I have a hard time believing they're both Townies. Townies would post at least once or twice here and try to help out their teammates.)

[Aldurin]

SIFRIGHT, UNVOTE YOURSELF RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!

DON'T MAKE THIS GAME ANYMORE STUPID THAN IT IS!

[Sifright]

Tell me something if me voting for my self is so stupid to do exactly what Nikose wants which is solidify Karesh position why aren't you calling nikose out on it? Regardless not changing my vote.

[Geminex]

Well, Snake, there's a couple of problems.

What if Fen really couldn't find anyone to replace Julford? It's plausible.

And what is power-role Julford really did just want to keep his head completely down? I mean, a couple of posts here or there won't make a difference. And posts that help us attract attention.

I'm just moderating, here. The logic works, but there's flaws.

[Solid Snake]

Also, would not be totally surprised if scummates with knowledge of Homestuck Mafia told Sifright to pull an RPG just to evade suspicion. There's something completely off with Sifright this game, period, but I don't think it's wise to vote him off yet as at least he's talkative. If we're scrambling for leads in, like, D4, I think it's totally reasonable to kill him then.

[Aldurin]

If a friend asks you to cut yourself would you do it? Even if it was yes, trying to suicide in mafia because nikose says so is unreasonable.

[Solid Snake]

What if Fen really couldn't find anyone to replace Julford? It's plausible.

Then the important thing to keep in mind here is that Fenris replaced two roles and Julford's isn't one of them, and all power roles that could submit stuff did submit stuff. Meaning, worst case scenario, Julford's a Town 'Nilla who'll never show up and contribute. Even more likely, he's scummy scum scum, or an SK trying to stay alive and evade the spotlight as long as possible.


And what is power-role Julford really did just want to keep his head completely down? I mean, a couple of posts here or there won't make a difference. And posts that help us attract attention.


Then, two things:
1: He'll post a defense when pressured, which is precisely what I want to see happen as at least then Julford will be active.
2: I still find this unlikely. A power role who wants to evade suspicion is still going to post once or twice and try to help Town, he'll just do so with the kind of strategy employed by someone like greed: make one or two well-reasoned posts, then disappear for a while, then go back for another well-reasoned post a few days later. Complete inactivity is anti-town.

[Revising Ocelot]

If all power roles submitted actions during the night then that rules out Julford as he wasn't active during the night.

Actually:

FoS: Snake

His "I'm going to powergame the fuck out of this" routine is really, really weird.

[Sifright]

Certainly, but to extend your metaphor further if the only way to save the lives of my friends was for me to die, I'd hope i was able to do so to save my friends, it's looking more and more like that is the case.

I mean look at it logically we are going to lose 3 people each night. one SK one Vig and one Mafia kill. Now we can hope the vig kills only scum but chances are the vig will accidentally take a towny unless he is majorly cautious. My death will ensure the town gets to trust Karesh and starts the basis for the entire town to unite around him.

[Solid Snake]

FoS: Snake

His "I'm going to powergame the fuck out of this" routine is really, really weird.

HoS: Revolving Ocelot
Suspecting the first person who's actually offered a sensible plan of action in contrast to the stupid Sifright / Veri / Nik drama makes me believe that you wish the stupid, non-constructive drama had continued to town's detriment. Maybe you'd prefer everyone voted Sifright off and gave him his suicide wish? If Julford is scum, you're probably his scummate.

[Sifright]

I was hoping that it would happen with me role confirming him but it makes sense that people aren't going to trust that to much but it would be ridiculous gambit for mafia to deploy day one. SO well might as well prove it beyond a doubt that Karesh is fluttershy.

Besides based on snakes earlier comments i'm clearly not cut out to be involved in this. So removing me to prove karesh is a benefit all around.

[Geminex]

Honestly, at this point, I think the Julford logic is pretty shaky. Let's see what happens. Maybe he will get replaced. If he's still around in D3, we can see about removing him.

Sif, on the other hand, is majorly fishy. D1 was bad enough, now he votes for himself without a huge motivating cause (other that people doubting him, I guess), but he continues to defend himself against people calling him mafia.

Yeah, let's give him his wish. See what happens. Worst-case, we get Karesh confirmed.
Best-case, one scum down.

Vote: Sifright.

[Solid Snake]

Besides based on snakes earlier comments i'm clearly not cut out to be involved in this. So removing me to prove karesh is a benefit all around.

Suiciding D2 is stupid and you're acting stupid for recommending it.

[Solid Snake]

HoS: Geminex

Today is not the day to grant Sifright's stupid wish. I mean, are you being serious? Are you? We can indulge in this crap if we have no other leads, like, D4, and we know Sifright will at least be active and contribute in the interim.

[Revising Ocelot]

Snake, I'm going mainly from your Day 1 actions and also your initial declarations of intent, not so much the current drama now.

[Geminex]

I kinda was, tbh, snake. His behavior is inconsistent, his motives seems fishy, and I would not put it past him to count on us to do what we're doing, namely persuading him to not suicide. Uhm.

On the other hand, not like there's a major time limit. I'll keep the vote up right now, but I'll see what else pops up. This is really only a 'best possible choice ATM' thing.

[Solid Snake]

Snake, I'm going mainly from your Day 1 actions and also your initial declarations of intent, not so much the current drama now.

...Okay, that's fair.

Still, let me be blunt here, I don't have particularly strong feelings about killing Julford, but I sure as hell think killing Sifright instead is a terrible idea. That doesn't mean he's Town. It doesn't mean he's Scum. But I'm not in the business of granting suicide wishes, not this early in the game and not just because Sifright seems to be in the business of generating imaginary crises of confidence. Killing an inactive under the logic I've proffered is infinitely more intelligent than that.

[Sifright]

Tell me this Snake doesn't the entire town having some one they can unite with make sense? IF the entire town has a person they can trust who can start the voting process off doesn't that make it much much better for the town?

[Verifiedz]

why vote me? only reason i wanna vote nik s cuz he makes fun of me.

[Solid Snake]

Tell me this Snake doesn't the entire town having some one they can unite with make sense? IF the entire town has a person they can trust who can start the voting process off doesn't that make it much much better for the town?

Nope!
(Someone remind me, do we have any reason whatsoever to believe that Karesh cannot be Nightkilled?)

[Sifright]

why vote me? only reason i wanna vote nik s cuz he makes fun of me.

That is a terrible reason for voting him for lynch. I mean i'm pretty sure he is a mafiatte but when it comes down to it you are suppose to reason through all the posts and find out whats suspicious not vote off the person who has offended you.

[Sifright]

edit: Nope!
(Someone remind me, do we have any reason whatsoever to believe that Karesh cannot be Nightkilled?)



Well Karesh claimed it I suppose that doesn't count for huge amounts as it could be a bluff.

[Revising Ocelot]

I agree that killing Sifright is a terrible idea. I'm uncertain about Julford - it's better than the alternative, but I'd like this to pan out a few more calendar days (not game days) before settling on him.

My other big concern is Nikose - from my (admittedly unexperienced) POV, he's trying to get himself lynched. And not in the "I DIE SO TOWN MAY WIN" Sifright way, but the Jester way. Hell, we've already got someone who can post in only GIFs, a Jester role would not be out of place here.

[Aldurin]

why vote me? only reason i wanna vote nik s cuz he makes fun of me.

I'm putting you on my "people to vote for later list" (everyone else, be sure to keep an eye on him if I die during the night). Not the same thing as voting.

[Solid Snake]

I'm putting you on my "people to vote for later list" (everyone else, be sure to keep an eye on him if I die during the night). Not the same thing as voting.

Personally, I have a hard time believing Verified is scum.
(If only because his scummates would be privately messaging him all kinds of threats to throttle him about now.)

[Geminex]

Ima go to bed. I think we shouldn't get muddled down in this, it's getting to be very back-and-forth. We've established that some of us are suspicious, let's see where that takes us. I'll keep my vote for Sif up, just cause I think it's best at the moment, but I'll see what there is to see when I wake up.

Byes.

[Solid Snake]

I still want to hear much more from greed and Ryanderman, who have been far more inactive this game than in Homestuck. I know both are fairly serious Mafia players.

[Sifright]

Hmm. Sif. If you want us to vote for you, why are you saying you aren't mafia?

Edit: I mean, of course you get to defend yourself, but if you think it's best for town for you to die, you'd try to get their votes.

Because me claiming i'm mafia whilst voting for my self to die would litterally be fucking stupid and no one on town side is going to vote for me if i do that because it's obvious i'm doing to confirm a role besides which if that was the case there is an easy way around I could just cheat get my self GO killed and bam roll confirmed.

[Ryanderman]

If all power roles submitted actions during the night then that rules out Julford as he wasn't active during the night.

Actually:

FoS: Snake

His "I'm going to powergame the fuck out of this" routine is really, really weird.
No, it's just Snake. I'd be suspicious if he didn't.


I was initially inclined to trust Nikose and think he had some sort of PO role, because of:

ITT: Everyone has their own ideas of what is a good opening gambit all around, and Smarty is probably the cult leader.


And so when he posted:

Alternatively I guess we could Lynch Snake since he's the Serial Killer but like, that's optional like I said.


I thought, "sweet! He must have investigated Snake during the night! Let's send Snake to the moon!

But then I remembered:

...You know just out of predictability I'm willing to wager that Snake is Pinkie Pie of the Mane 6 and probably has a special power.

Alduin was culted night 0.

RPG is serial Killer.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

And now I'm more inclined to think he's just throwing that stuff out there, seeing what sticks, and he got lucky. I don't know what his game is. A suicide role seems to fit, kinda. Maybe.

Alternatively, he could be trying to hide his PO power behind a veil of random crap. Get the information out there, without drawing fire. Which makes me inclined to be suspicious of Snake again. But discussing and disecting the possibility of a PO Nikose seems to be unwise, as we don't want the PO revealed to the mafia. So I don't particularly know how to act on my suspicion.

I think killing Sifright is a bad idea, as we're not even suspecting he's anything but town. It may confirm an un-night killable town role, but I can't get past the fact that we'd be intentionally lynching a townie.

I think the logic behind going for Juliford has some merit, though I'm going to reserve my vote for now.

[Ryanderman]

I still want to hear much more from greed and Ryanderman, who have been far more inactive this game than in Homestuck. I know both are fairly serious Mafia players.

Ha, that was funny timing.

[Sifright]

No, it's just Snake. I'd be suspicious if he didn't.


I was initially inclined to trust Nikose and think he had some sort of PO role, because of:



And so when he posted:



I thought, "sweet! He must have investigated Snake during the night! Let's send Snake to the moon!

But then I remembered:





And now I'm more inclined to think he's just throwing that stuff out there, seeing what sticks, and he got lucky. I don't know what his game is. A suicide role seems to fit, kinda. Maybe.

Alternatively, he could be trying to hide his PO power behind a veil of random crap. Get the information out there, without drawing fire. Which makes me inclined to be suspicious of Snake again. But discussing and disecting the possibility of a PO Nikose seems to be unwise, as we don't want the PO revealed to the mafia. So I don't particularly know how to act on my suspicion.

I think killing Sifright is a bad idea, as we're not even suspecting he's anything but town. It may confirm an un-night killable town role, but I can't get past the fact that we'd be intentionally lynching a townie.

I think the logic behind going for Juliford has some merit, though I'm going to reserve my vote for now.


Out of interest how did you think he pulled said actions off during D1 when presumably, he had no night actions during that time period?

[Solid Snake]

HoS: Ryanderman

This really may not be his fault, but I've been trained through years of Mafia experience to be skeptical of anyone who's been relatively inactive who immediately posts content upon being mentioned and questioned for his inactivity.

Actually, Ryanderman: Why haven't you been contributing as much as I'd expect from you?

[Ryanderman]

Out of interest how did you think he pulled said actions off during D1 when presumably, he had no night actions during that time period?

There have been day investigation POs before, so he could have during the day. Usually they'll come with some restriction, like potentially wrong, or one shot, or something. Also, like you, he could have started with knowledge of someone's role. There are several possiblities for the specifics, and I'm certainly not saying my suspicions are enough to act on by any means. Just, my something senses are tingling.

[Aldurin]

Same reason I didn't post as much, we try to keep up on the topic but then you and Nikose rip it out of the ground and run off laughing like SpongeBob. It's intimidating trying to squeeze in a post when walls of text grow within five minutes.

[Aldurin]

That was answering Snake's question to Ryanderman.

[Verifiedz]

nikkkk. voooteeee nicckkkkk

[Gregness]

Holy fuck you guys, I go to work for a couple hours and I come back to 15 pages of posts.

Lemme work through the backlog as the relevant bits stuck out to me.

It's like all the intelligent people in D1 have had their minds erased and have been replaced by unintelligent people


You wound me.

Complimenting, actually. It was like "The thread was filled with dumb shit, and then Geminex, like a ray of sunshine, showed up and started saying smart things."

Also, let me put my vote to good use.

VOTE: Julford Hajime

Reasoning: He's inactive but Fenris hasn't looked for a replacement for him like he has others, which means he's scum.

I've been saying we should get rid of the inactives since almost the very beginning, it's nice to see that folks are coming on board.

With that in mind

VOTE: Julford Hajime

until a better suggestion comes along.

@Hawk: karesh's way of talking regarding the whole "fluttershy" thing definitely implied he was un-nightkillable.

I'm too lazy to track it down amongst the 60+pages of posts, but what he actually said was that the cult couldn't turn him. He said nothing about being bullet proof.

FoS: Verifiedz

He is either the worst townie ever or the worst scum ever. I can't tell which. I am slightly leaning toward scum because of how hard he was trying to vote Nikose, trying to get attention off of himself.

Anyways, that vote will come at a later day. So what are our major suspects again?

I would actually be okay with this as a lynch plan B. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Policy_Lynch)

[Solid Snake]

You make it sound like Nik and I's posts are objectively similar. One of us isn't joking around with his walls. =/

[Ryanderman]

HoS: Ryanderman

This really may not be his fault, but I've been trained through years of Mafia experience to be skeptical of anyone who's been relatively inactive who immediately posts content upon being mentioned and questioned for his inactivity.

Actually, Ryanderman: Why haven't you been contributing as much as I'd expect from you?

Last Wednesday: Flew from San Francisco to Atlanta for Team Building Exercise.
Thursday: Spent all day in a conference room doing a team compentition business simulations (we sold imaginary computers in South America like nobody's business!)
Friday: Finished simulation, flew to New York (Buffalo). Dealt with crisis, as wife missed her flight from San Francisco to Buffalo, and had to go on stand by to a later flight. Finally arrive around 1:30 AM. Her bag was left in San Fran, ended up staying in the Buffalo airport the entire time we were in NY
Saturday: Preped for and had wedding reception for all the folk in New York who couldn't come to our wedding in Florida
Sunday: Went to church and hung out with people's I haven't seen in years.
Monday: More spending loads of time with family and friends in NY.
Tuesday: Flew home. Flight was canceled, had to go stand by for last flight of the day, was rerouted through Las Vegas, ended up catching the last BART of the night. Got home around 1:30 AM. Bags were left in Buffalo.
Wednesday: Drove an hour and a half south through crazy San Jose traffic to do vibration testing for my job. Drove 2 hours back. Their waiting room is under construction, sp they have no computers, and I had limited internet access on my pohone.
Thursday: Rinse and repeat.
Today: Finally had a break at work, wrote my post, did some work. Came back a bit later and went, oh hey, I never posted that. Posted it, then saw you calling me out.

[Aldurin]

Ok, well I've got work for the next 8 hours, so you guys bicker among yourselves and see if you can develop some more suspects.

[Oron]

I'm too lazy to track it down amongst the 60+pages of posts, but what he actually said was that the cult couldn't turn him. He said nothing about being bullet proof.

This made me look for his post.

And I'm comfortable in declaring openly that I am pretty much the best townie you ever did see. The cult won't be able to turn me, and that means when you need a true blue friend in the dark, you can count on Flutter-goddamn-shy.

Turns out Karesh does only claim an invulnerability to Cult. So Hawk's suggestion to have the Vig test Karesh was a really bad on.

[Sifright]

he said later on he was bullet proof, Also the Vig attacking Karesh doesn't role prove because well unless he reveals himself it's useless and if he does we lose the vig

[Oron]

The only thing we'd learn if it didn't work is the name of the pony that's the Vig (and we think the Vig is Rainbow Dash at this point), not the player's name.

[Oron]

Like "Rainbow Dash tried to take out Fluttershy, but Fluttershy survived!" Or some such.

Unless Fenris follows the method of not mentioning failed night attacks.

[Sifright]

No, it's just Snake. I'd be suspicious if he didn't.


I was initially inclined to trust Nikose and think he had some sort of PO role, because of:



And so when he posted:



I thought, "sweet! He must have investigated Snake during the night! Let's send Snake to the moon!

But then I remembered:





And now I'm more inclined to think he's just throwing that stuff out there, seeing what sticks, and he got lucky. I don't know what his game is. A suicide role seems to fit, kinda. Maybe.

Alternatively, he could be trying to hide his PO power behind a veil of random crap. Get the information out there, without drawing fire. Which makes me inclined to be suspicious of Snake again. But discussing and disecting the possibility of a PO Nikose seems to be unwise, as we don't want the PO revealed to the mafia. So I don't particularly know how to act on my suspicion.

I think killing Sifright is a bad idea, as we're not even suspecting he's anything but town. It may confirm an un-night killable town role, but I can't get past the fact that we'd be intentionally lynching a townie.

I think the logic behind going for Juliford has some merit, though I'm going to reserve my vote for now.

Also, would not be totally surprised if scummates with knowledge of Homestuck Mafia told Sifright to pull an RPG just to evade suspicion. There's something completely off with Sifright this game, period, but I don't think it's wise to vote him off yet as at least he's talkative. If we're scrambling for leads in, like, D4, I think it's totally reasonable to kill him then.


Surely killing me D4 is much much worse day four will be very close to the endgame unless we luck out and killing me then to prove a role claim seems rather counter intuitive.

[Nikose Tyris]

You make it sound like Nik and I's posts are objectively similar. One of us isn't joking around with his walls. =/

My walls are rarely joking. It's my one-off sentences that are usually simple and silly.

GOD LEARN TO READ SNAKE

[Fenris]

[He's not even online right now, just in class, he suddenly stopped and went "Someone just compared me to Nikose, Imma ban that fucker tonight."]

Trufax

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm home but in like 5 minutes I won't have any more internet. so Imma VOTE: JULFORD for now and if he's not dead by morning, will read additional evidence then.

[Solid Snake]

Surely killing me D4 is much much worse day four will be very close to the endgame unless we luck out and killing me then to prove a role claim seems rather counter intuitive.

Given the shellacking Cult was just dealt, I highly doubt we'll be anywhere near endgame by D4, particularly since if there's an SK and a Cult in this game, the Mafiate is probably smaller than usual / Town has powers to compensate. Hell, Homestuck Mafia didn't end D4 and that game was a series of terrible blunders by Town and a Mafiate never died.

[Verifiedz]

VOTE:NIKOSE

[Fenris]

VOTE:NIKOSE

You don't need to keep doing that.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

This made me look for his post.



Turns out Karesh does only claim an invulnerability to Cult. So Hawk's suggestion to have the Vig test Karesh was a really bad on.

Oh, shit. I could have sworn I mentioned later on that it was a terrible idea for a doctor or anything to protect me since the mafia wouldn't work either.
It's actually worded as "Immune to night targeting"

[Oron]

Oh, yeah. I just re-checked. You did mention that mafia targeting wouldn't work on you either.

My bad.

[Solid Snake]

Oh, shit. I could have sworn I mentioned later on that it was a terrible idea for a doctor or anything to protect me since the mafia wouldn't work either.
It's actually worded as "Immune to night targeting"

I can't really determine whether Karesh is being honest or if this is an ingenious plan for a scummate to avoid an investigator scanning him because he's "immune to night targeting."
Fortunately I don't think it's a question we need to answer just yet, unless Karesh is the strongest scum role who really just wants to get one of his powerful abilities off before he's killed.

There's something I find inherently skeptical about any "immune to night targeting" roles. I mean, that's almost a brokenly powerful role.

And for a fellow Townie in Sifright to presumably be offered the critical tidbit of information that "Fluttershy is town?"

Here's why I don't necessarily buy this:
1) If he can't be nightkilled or converted, the only way Cult, SK or Scum can get rid of Karesh is by lynching him.
2) If Sifright (another Townie, presumably) is told who Fluttershy is and can announce this, Scum, SK and Cult can no longer lynch Karesh. The entire weakness built into the character design is nullified.

Particularly since it makes intuitive sense to lynch Sifright before Karesh because Sifright flipping Town means that Karesh is Town and Karesh will remain alive for the rest of the game, unencumbered. It's like a free pass, a guaranteed Townie who we can not only trust implicitly as confirmed but who also cannot be eliminated by Scum or Cult or SK by any means.

My reaction to this isn't "Oh, what a huge break for Town!" My reaction to this is "Fenris knows how to balance games better than this, he's not going to give Town a free handout of a confirmed Townie who cannot be killed."

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I can't really determine whether Karesh is being honest or if this is an ingenious plan for a scummate to avoid an investigator scanning him because he's "immune to night targeting."
Fortunately I don't think it's a question we need to answer just yet, unless Karesh is the strongest scum role who really just wants to get one of his powerful abilities off before he's killed.

There's something I find inherently skeptical about any "immune to night targeting" roles. I mean, that's almost a brokenly powerful role.

And for a fellow Townie in Sifright to presumably be offered the critical tidbit of information that "Fluttershy is town?"

Here's why I don't necessarily buy this:
1) If he can't be nightkilled or converted, the only way Cult, SK or Scum can get rid of Karesh is by lynching him.
2) If Sifright (another Townie, presumably) is told who Fluttershy is and can announce this, Scum, SK and Cult can no longer lynch Karesh. The entire weakness built into the character design is nullified.

Particularly since it makes intuitive sense to lynch Sifright before Karesh because Sifright flipping Town means that Karesh is Town and Karesh will remain alive for the rest of the game, unencumbered. It's like a free pass, a guaranteed Townie who we can not only trust implicitly as confirmed but who also cannot be eliminated by Scum or Cult or SK by any means.

My reaction to this isn't "Oh, what a huge break for Town!" My reaction to this is "Fenris knows how to balance games better than this, he's not going to give Town a free handout of a confirmed Townie who cannot be killed."


Well remember Sif didn't know what my role was, only that I was Fluttershy.
With almost any other person in mafia I don't think you could find somebody so stupidly honest as me, and speaking realistically I think the events and circumstances that lead up to what is potentially a righteous boon to the town (lol modesty) were rather unique.

If he's being honest, not many players under Sif's position would have revealed they knew something special to begin with, let alone specifically that it was related to one player who may have a power role.

And, again, given my position I think it's fair to say that not many would consider openly revealing their roles at such an early stage. Even given the security involved in mine, a role claim of this level is a magnet for suspicion. But I'm taking that gamble.

Truth be told, as you said earlier I could have baited Sif more, but I felt that having a drawn out back and forth between the two of us could have...I suppose the word would be 'tainted' the truth. That it would seem more like a spiteful attempt to kill him off than a genuine attempt to get my role and place in the town into the open.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also
My reaction to this isn't "Oh, what a huge break for Town!" My reaction to this is "Fenris knows how to balance games better than this, he's not going to give Town a free handout of a confirmed Townie who cannot be killed."

No.

[Solid Snake]

Well remember Sif didn't know what my role was, only that I was Fluttershy.

You're missing my point.
Whether Sif knows your role is irrelevant. What's important is that Sif is told that you are Fluttershy (and let's face it, Fluttershy is never under any circumstances a character presumed to be a Mafiate.)

So the conundrum here is simply this: If true, Sif has been given information that would effectively, if played correctly by Sif (admittingly, he jumped the gun) would prevent any lynch attempt on you. Whether or not Sif even knows that "Karesh is Town," the prerequisite two-minute Wikipedia research would inform him that Fluttershy's a good pony, and so if all of this is true, Town-Sif is given the incentive to specifically go to bat for you.

And there's a huge problem with that.
Like, it's not unbelievable that Karesh would be given a Townie role that's unnightkillable and can't be converted. But such a role needs a weakness. The weakness of the role is that Scum, SK, Cult, etc. need to be able to lynch you. And Sifright knowing that you're Fluttershy eliminates that possibility unless Sifright happens to be killed before he can reveal what he knows, which is very unlikely. (He'd tell us what he knows before he'd let himself get lynched.)

For that matter, it's not unbelievable that Sifright, as Town, would be given information in the form of the knowledge of the identity of one other Townie. But it is unbelievable that the knowledge he'd have would correspond to the one and only person who cannot be targeted at night. He effectively would then be given the power to stop the lynching of the one Townie whose one and only weakness is an ability to be lynched.

But here's what really doesn't make sense to me, this hemming and hawing at the notion that Sifright could possibly still be scum, almost as if you want to have an excuse to rely upon in the event that Sifright actually is lynched and he flips Mafiate.
It's like you want to be able to say: "Whoops! Well, I did account for the possibility that he'd flip Scum. Clearly he and his scummates just made up the idea that he knew who Fluttershy was and I just so happened to jump the gun and reveal who I was before bothering to test his knowledge adequately. I'm still Town, and by the way, you still can't investigate me."

Yeah, I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that Fluttershy just might be a Scum safe-listed role that Karesh is exploiting.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

You're missing my point.
Whether Sif knows your role is irrelevant. What's important is that Sif is told that you are Fluttershy (and let's face it, Fluttershy is never under any circumstances a character presumed to be a Mafiate.)

So the conundrum here is simply this: If true, Sif has been given information that would effectively, if played correctly by Sif (admittingly, he jumped the gun) would prevent any lynch attempt on you. Whether or not Sif even knows that "Karesh is Town," the prerequisite two-minute Wikipedia research would inform him that Fluttershy's a good pony, and so if all of this is true, Town-Sif is given the incentive to specifically go to bat for you.

And there's a huge problem with that.
Like, it's not unbelievable that Karesh would be given a Townie role that's unnightkillable and can't be converted. But such a role needs a weakness. The weakness of the role is that Scum, SK, Cult, etc. need to be able to lynch you. And Sifright knowing that you're Fluttershy eliminates that possibility unless Sifright happens to be killed before he can reveal what he knows, which is very unlikely. (He'd tell us what he knows before he'd let himself get lynched.)

For that matter, it's not unbelievable that Sifright, as Town, would be given information in the form of the knowledge of the identity of one other Townie. But it is unbelievable that the knowledge he'd have would correspond to the one and only person who cannot be targeted at night. He effectively would then be given the power to stop the lynching of the one Townie whose one and only weakness is an ability to be lynched.

But here's what really doesn't make sense to me, this hemming and hawing at the notion that Sifright could possibly still be scum, almost as if you want to have an excuse to rely upon in the event that Sifright actually is lynched and he flips Mafiate.
It's like you want to be able to say: "Whoops! Well, I did account for the possibility that he'd flip Scum. Clearly he and his scummates just made up the idea that he knew who Fluttershy was and I just so happened to jump the gun and reveal who I was before bothering to test his knowledge adequately. I'm still Town, and by the way, you still can't investigate me."

Yeah, I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that Fluttershy just might be a Scum safe-listed role that Karesh is exploiting.

I'm not gonna say Fenris is a super genius or that he's a total moron, but there's definitely a very large possibility that he just didn't see this shit coming. Truth be told, when I heard of Sifrights role I sort of suspected it was a roulette power that let him know the role of one pony, which just happened to be me. And Fenris without really considering the points you've laid out allowed him to enter the game with that knowledge.

Or, even if he had there's still a significant possibility of mafiate or SK victory at this point. At the end of the day I can't actually do anything to them any more than a regular townie can. Eventually they'll need to be the majority anyway, so all my role really means is they're going to have to save me for the last of the ponies.


To the latter point I really wasn't trying to paint anything like that. I just noticed that after I'd made my claim that someponies were calling it confirmed for both of us. I know I'm Town, so I know they're right when they say "Oh well Karesh is town" but I also know the town won't get too far if they take all this at face value. You can totally trust me, but logically speaking until later in the game when we can get more thorough confirmation on my role, you really shouldn't. Cause being that trusting is tantamount to mass town suicide.

[Fenris]

Nikose 1
Verifiedz

Solid Snake 1
Nikose

Julford Hajime 1
Snake

Sifright 2
Sifright
Geminex

10 to lynch, deadline eventually

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also I hate to try and paint my own portrait here but I'm not one for double mobius roulette bullshit. If I was fully aware that Sifright was lying, why would I continually draw more attention to him and by proxy my own guilt?

[IHateMakingNames]

... I was Fluttershy.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/nod4.gif
Yeah, I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that Fluttershy just might be a Scum safe-listed role that Karesh is exploiting.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/NuklearFenris/Reaction%20Images/2258320-20applejack20do_not_want20fluttershy20not_sure_if_ want.png




http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/rainbowfly.gifhttp://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/flutterah.gif

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I agree with IHMN.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Wait.
Is IHMN suggesting that RD and FS is the best pairing or that Rainbow Dash should try to murder me?
Because on second thought I'd like to clarify that I am decidedly more in favor of one proclamation than the other.

[Verifiedz]

would about solid snake? im starting to think about him. he is typing too much that i dont bother to read. im guessing every third letter is mafia code for something. someone convince me more and i wont vote nikose

[Oron]

I think IHMN stated agreement that you, Karesh, are Fluttershy. Then he stated his surprise that Snake thinks Fluttershy is a safe-listed role for Scum and wants Rainbow Dash (our supposed Vig) to test your claimed immunity to nightkills.

[IHateMakingNames]

that Rainbow Dash should try to murder me?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/Applejack.gif

[IHateMakingNames]

I think IHMN stated agreement that you, Karesh, are Fluttershy. Then he stated his surprise that Snake thinks Fluttershy is a safe-listed role for Scum and wants Rainbow Dash (our supposed Vig) to test your claimed immunity to nightkills.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/tumblr_lkzkjsPnJX1qha245o1_500.png

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

...Does that mean you don't like FlutterDash?

[Solid Snake]

would about solid snake? im starting to think about him. he is typing too much that i dont bother to read. im guessing every third letter is mafia code for something. someone convince me more and i wont vote nikose

Ahahaha he doesn't like all my words
You know at this point I think I'd wear a Verifiedz vote against me as a badge of honor
It'd be like "Verifiedz hates me"
"This is proof that I am in fact Town"

[Verifiedz]

im so confused. i dont watch my littly pony. although i do play with them.jk

[Verifiedz]

ahhds ka alright i dont think that means anything. it must be some other code.

[Solid Snake]

I think IHMN stated agreement that you, Karesh, are Fluttershy. Then he stated his surprise that Snake thinks Fluttershy is a safe-listed role for Scum and wants Rainbow Dash (our supposed Vig) to test your claimed immunity to nightkills.

Actually, this is an altogether solid idea, particularly because I'd feel exceptionally confident with both Karesh and Sifright's claims assuming Karesh lives
Of course, it only is a feasible option if the Vig has unlimited kills; if his kills are limited he shouldn't waste a limited-use shot trying to take a presumably invulnerable character off.
Also if you are in fact Vig don't respond to this or acknowledge it in any way shape or form seriously k thx

[Oron]

I'm still not sure about that course of action.

However, I guess if the Vig was to waste a nightkill, it'd be preferable for that to be done earlier in the game when it's less definite who's Scum.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Actually, this is an altogether solid idea, particularly because I'd feel exceptionally confident with both Karesh and Sifright's claims assuming Karesh lives
Of course, it only is a feasible option if the Vig has unlimited kills; if his kills are limited he shouldn't waste a limited-use shot trying to take a presumably invulnerable character off.
Also if you are in fact Vig don't respond to this or acknowledge it in any way shape or form seriously k thx

While I can't honestly say I'm in favor of wasting a night kill statistically we'd be more likely to see the death of a mafiate anyway, yes?
So I suppose if the Vig feels up to the idea she's free to stop by Casa la Fluttershy to get stared into submission.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

In fact OPEN CHALLENGE. Lets have the weirdest goddamn night post ever. EVERYPONY TARGET ME. Mafia, POs, Doctors, SK and Vig. EVERYPONY IS INVITED TO MY HOUSE.
THERE WILL BE CAKES.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

While I can't honestly say I'm in favor of wasting a night kill statistically we'd be more likely to see the death of a mafiate anyway, yes?
So I suppose if the Vig feels up to the idea she's free to stop by Casa la Fluttershy to get stared into submission.

Gah LESS likely to see the death of a mafioso/scum in general than a townie.
I is tired. I is sorry.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Alright, just got back and read the backlog. My thoughts.

-Sif's suicide attempt struck me as odd. Almost like a bluff, as though we wouldn't kill him if he tried to encourage it. RPG did it though so maybe he's just genuinely offing himself?

-There seems to be solid reasoning against Julford, I don't know his normal habits though. I'd pitch a vote for him if I could see more reasoning.

-Verified seems rickety. Liek, I don't think he's scum, but he might very well be an ineffective town and that can be dangerous. Like, last game, Earl knew I was scum and instead voted RPG at the behest of both me and Fenris, who was also scum. A bad Townie can be just as dangerous as scum if left to lie.

- Ryanderman jumping in once the hoof of suspicion was cast upon him struck me as odd. HOS: Ryanderman

- I was at first inclined to believe that Sanke was pretty much town, but Smarty is sort of a shocking swerve because I trusted him for many of the reasons I trusted Snake, so yeah I'm going to be a bit leery of everyone now.

- I feel suspicious of Geminex. He was pretty eager to go for Sif's suicide. However, i'm withholding a vote on him because I already think Sif is a little bit suspicious for reasons lifted above.

I guess right now I'll cast my vote. Vote: Julford Hajime

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

In fact OPEN CHALLENGE. Lets have the weirdest goddamn night post ever. EVERYPONY TARGET ME. Mafia, POs, Doctors, SK and Vig. EVERYPONY IS INVITED TO MY HOUSE.
THERE WILL BE CAKES.

RELATED

http://localhostr.com/file/T3bG5ac/63356%20-%20Hubble%20animated%20fluttershy%20gif%20macro%20 the_return_of_harmony_part_2.gif

[Fenris]

I guess right now I'll cast my vote. Vote: Julford Hajime
-When you vote or unvote, you must separate that line from the rest of the post. Unvotes and votes may be on the same line.
-When you unvote somepony, you must list their name directly following the unvote.

If we could all observe proper voting technique, that'd be fantastic awesome.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Vote: Julford Hajime

[Verifiedz]

so no one else thinks snake is mafia?

[Solid Snake]

so no one else thinks snake is mafia?

If you're seriously going to try to get me lynched, I'd strongly suggest you articulate reasoning for believing that I'm Scum that goes beyond "Snake types a lot of shit that I don't bother to read."

I mean that's pretty a null-tell with me, regardless of what role I'm assigned, I'm going to type too much text for poor Verifiedz's mind to handle.

ZING

[Verifiedz]

If you're seriously going to try to get me lynched, I'd strongly suggest you articulate reasoning for believing that I'm Scum that goes beyond "Snake types a lot of shit that I don't bother to read."

I mean that's pretty a null-tell with me, regardless of what role I'm assigned, I'm going to type too much text for poor Verifiedz's mind to handle.

ZING
damn brotha. you got me there. im staying with nik. good job

[Solid Snake]

...Wait a second.

Julford's last activity was August 27th.
Fawful's last activity was September 29th.
Welp.

Unvote: Julford
Vote: Fawful

[Gregness]

damn brotha. you got me there. im staying with nik. good job

You clearly have the most appropriate user title in the history of the forum.

Actually, this is an altogether solid idea, particularly because I'd feel exceptionally confident with both Karesh and Sifright's claims assuming Karesh lives
Of course, it only is a feasible option if the Vig has unlimited kills; if his kills are limited he shouldn't waste a limited-use shot trying to take a presumably invulnerable character off.
Also if you are in fact Vig don't respond to this or acknowledge it in any way shape or form seriously k thx

This sounds solid in theory, but have we established for certain that there IS a serial killer? Someone earlier today suggested that the entire cult fell just because smarty (the supposed leader) did and that the rest of the "deaths" were simple flavor text.

This is my first mafia game so I'm not altogether sure how power roles usually work...

Also, Fenris, I voted earlier but it was buried in amongst a multi-quote so I'll repost:

Vote: Julford Hajime

[Gregness]

...Wait a second.

Julford's last activity was August 27th.
Fawful's last activity was September 29th.
Welp.

Unvote: Julford
Vote: Fawful

*sigh*

I was trusting your judgment of which of the inactives to target, Snake. I guess that's what I get for not doing my own research. :(

Anyway, I'm for booting an inactive and I'll stick with your choice for now.

Unvote: Julford Hajime

Vote: Fawfulcopter

[Solid Snake]

Well, I'm for getting my target to talk. It doesn't really look like Julford will ever show, and unfortunately, if his 'last login' date is accurate, it's virtual confirmation that he's most likely Townie 'Nilla.
Fawful, on the other hand, may have submitted something to Fenris 'last night,' based on his recent activity. So he better start actually participating.

[rpgdemon]

Wow, lots of posts to catch up on. Can someone sparknotes it for me?

I'm going to try to catch up later, but I figure I ought to let you guys know that I'll be busy-ish, and probably not around too much.

[rpgdemon]

And I have caught up.

Time to collapse into bed, and digest it all.

[IHateMakingNames]

Wow, lots of posts to catch up on. Can someone sparknotes it for me?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/pinkiesummary.gif











And I have caught up.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/NuklearFenris/Reaction%20Images/a2.gif

[Aldurin]

Until other developments arise . . .

Vote: Fawfulcopter

Silently watching the thread explode while offing people every night would be a really sweet gig for mafia.

[Aldurin]

DERP, BAD VOTE

Vote: Fawfulcopter

[Sifright]

Yes that is exactly correct guys I am a mafia player who is pulling a suicide gambit where in i vote my self to try and die so that you don't lynch me...... It's all just a bluff.

Thats why i'm voting to lynch my self and am trying actively to get every one else to lynch me to prove kareshs role.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Vote: Sifright

I haven't trusted him all game and now he wants us to call his bluff. I am inclined, upon hearing the words, "call my bluff" to do just that, because it's the last thing people expect. And if we can confirm one way or the other kareshs role then it'll be worth it.

[Sifright]

actually my exact words are "Please do kill me" I mean seriously guys what the fuck. It's no bluff but you guys are acting like it is. Since when do fucking mafia ever go "Vote for me!" but regardless please do kill me safest way to prove karesh is fluttershy and killing me on day 4 like snake suggested is pants on head retarded by that point it's usually mislynch and town lose.

[Verifiedz]

UNVOTE:NIKOSE

VOTE:FAWFUL

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

actually my exact words are "Please do kill me" I mean seriously guys what the fuck. It's no bluff but you guys are acting like it is. Since when do fucking mafia ever go "Vote for me!" but regardless please do kill me safest way to prove karesh is fluttershy and killing me on day 4 like snake suggested is pants on head retarded by that point it's usually mislynch and town lose.

There's ways to prove it without you getting lynched, lets at least wait and see if the Vig will take this shot at me or not.
Or, alternately, if this party will go down.

Vote: Fawfulcopter

[Nikose Tyris]

Hilarity:
Town aligned roles all target Karesh; mafia and SK are going to completely ignore him, attack random people, we will be down 2 roles.

Snake suggested course of action, confirming Snake to be the SK to me.

Sticking with voting Snake.

[Sifright]

Yea I don't agree with having all the town power roles being used on karesh it's rather silly.

[Sifright]

Also guys when you lynch me my request is you lynch the hell out of nikose because fuuuuck is he suspicious.

[Nikose Tyris]

Suspicious actions: Pointing out a bad plan.

Completely not suspicious actions: posting walls of text that force those who disagree into submission because it's easier to agree then put up with 3 posts in a row that are more essays, from a University student who's studying the art of Writing Much and Saying Nothing.

This is the man that we all are siding with here. I'm going to point that out, and remind you all again, this is the man that made arguments more illogical than mine, and continuously bashed my own- Arguments that Sifright agrees with, actually.

Despite how 'scummy' it apparently is to enjoy a game and continue acting as I normally do [That is, silly and casually accusatory], I'm actually writing a post with some seriousness to say, He's clearly the SK and stands out like a sore thumb, and if he survives tonight, we have a worse than 1 in 4 chance to lose one of our 3 power roles [Vig, PO, BG].


TL;DR Doing the maths after this point here:


Wait I'm actually going to do the math for that.


Currently 18 Players; assume 5 mafiates, 1 SK, 11 Town, 1 confirmed immune town.

Mafia kills 1 of 12 people. 3 of those are likely power roles.
Ergo, Mafia swing has a 1 in 4 chance of hitting a power role.

SK targets among the 16 players, and has a 1 in roughly 6 chance of hitting a friendly role, or a 1 in ~3 chance of hitting a mafiate right now.

[B]Now Back to the good Part [Logic]:

So, NO, Town power roles, do not just hit Karesh tonight. Sifright was a better vote target as a way of confirming and not wasting night kills, BUT EVEN SO we could completely ignore Sifright and Karesh, have night roles act freely as they are meant to, so the Bodyguard could defend anyone they wished, Vig could swing and have a chance to hit a legitimate target, and PO could investigate, I dunno, ANYONE [Like Me, or Ryanderman, or Snake, or Sifright.]

The thing that leads me MOST against Snake was his continual Overthinking of Karesh's role when there's no reason to continue down that path. RO did that earlier today* [Game day] and Snake has been doing it continuously. There's no logic to "Aha you have fallen into my trap of voting for someone voting randomly and joining a bandwagon" "But what if Fenris knew we'd know that we knew that he chose to..." Snake is smarter than that. He's making purposeful bad faith arguements against Karesh, the only role that HE CANNOT KILL, and when he could not lead a lynch, opted to lead ALL THE TOWN'S NIGHT ACTIONS against Karesh.

If there is a scummier action then encouraging the entire town to blast Karesh, and waste every night action we have?

Snake is making arguments that would make Descartes proud.

[Sifright]

Nikose makes some very good arguments there... despite my misigivings earlier.

[Sifright]

Although your continued insistence that he is the SK is a little perturbing.

[Nikose Tyris]

What role would you see him in, beyond SK? He always talks about finding Mafia, doubted the existence of an SK despite there clearly being one [Cluckles], and maybe most damning of all, did try to see a town outcry against Karesh, the only confirmed unkillable were he an SK.

It seems logical to me that he's the SK. He fits the role perfectly.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

What role would you see him in, beyond SK? He always talks about finding Mafia, doubted the existence of an SK despite there clearly being one [Cluckles], and maybe most damning of all, did try to see a town outcry against Karesh, the only confirmed unkillable were he an SK.

It seems logical to me that he's the SK. He fits the role perfectly.

When you think about it, he was especially disturbed by the implications of my role. Who would such a role threaten the most? Not Mafia, they win when their number comprises half the remaining town. Even with only one Mafiate, they can win.

An SK, though? He can only win when he's the last pony standing.
Unless the SK gets me lynched he cannot win!

[Nikose Tyris]

VOTE: SOLID SNAKE

We've seen through you, Seen your true colors.

[Verifiedz]

im sticking with fawfull

[Sifright]

Nikose makes some good points, I still think he is a mafiate though but I think your reasoning for snake appears to be solid, based mainly on your intial urge to kill me to prove kareshs role claim.

[Nikose Tyris]

I don't care if you think I'm a mafiate- I'm more concerned with ridding the town of the SK, so that we have only one anti-town kill role at night. Then the PO can [relatively safely] step forward, confess his investigates, and Bodyguard can protect him each night.

Meaning that PO could build a decent collection of either Dead Mafiates or Confessed known towns, until the bodyguard gets hit/killed.

Follow my line of thinking, cause I'm not saying it right. :P

[Sifright]

I actually agree with you Ideally i'd want some way to have conclusive proof that Snake is SK before we kill him but there is enough circumstantial evidence to potentially warrant a lynch.

unvote: Myself

Vote: Snake

Although i'm still interested to know what else we can see before day ends.

[Nikose Tyris]

Also, You could probably find a much better Whooves Avatar than that.

like this one:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-__Mwt9NUyFM/TfvZJTWGUFI/AAAAAAAABq8/qnsvaYzgsQ4/1308208564_mlp___doctor_whooves_by_luga12345-d3j1fvv.png

[Verifiedz]

what pony avatar should i take? and

UNVOTE:Fawful

VOTE:SNAKE

[Solid Snake]

Hilarity:
Town aligned roles all target Karesh; mafia and SK are going to completely ignore him, attack random people, we will be down 2 roles.

Snake suggested course of action, confirming Snake to be the SK to me.

Sticking with voting Snake.

What the heck are you making up now, Nik
In no way did I suggest anyone other than the Vig potentially target Karesh
Stop attributing shit other people say or add off my ideas to me.
Also, you do realize how excessively foolish you're going to look once I do not flip SK? You're setting yourself up to be quickly voted off once everyone realizes you're bluffing and pretending to possess investigative knowledge you do not have.

[Nikose Tyris]

Solid Snake: Grasping at Straws

[Nikose Tyris]

@Veri: Well, Sifright is roleclaiming Whooves and taking that avatar. You can use whoever you'd like, really. It's all open to whatever.

I recommend Ditzy Doo for you, though, Veri.

[Solid Snake]

Solid Snake: Grasping at Straws

Nik: Going to look terrible D3
Like seriously, I'm actually all for dying if in so doing it reveals you're clearly scum, a 1 to 1 tradeoff is fair. But I'm not going to let you get away with completely making up shit that I didn't say to prove something that isn't true.

[Sifright]

Hmm looking back i don't spot a post where snake specifically told all the town roles to do that. Nikose if you can find said post please quote it.

On the other hand Snake still told the vig to attempt to hit Karesh even presuming that karesh is safe from the vig, no one has said failed night actions will give a flavour message.

[Nikose Tyris]

Fair enough! If you drop, and are SK, then I clearly have nothing to worry about.

Also when you get defensive and worried, you stop formatting your sentences correctly, and instead hurriedly type things out that feel like the right answer.

You have no poker face.

[Nikose Tyris]

Also going offline for a bit, since my time at McDonalds is up, and they are asking me to leave. [Still no home internet]

[Solid Snake]

ITT: Nikose thinks me typing on an iPod is evidence I'm scum.
nah, let me put it this way to you, Nik. For the sake of my respect for you I hope you're scum, because then I can at least respect your strategy in completely making stuff up to bail me to an imaginary wall.
You've been grasping to justify me as SK for some time. If you're Town, which you're increasingly likely not, I can't grasp why other than to suggest you may not know me as well as you think you do

[Sifright]

I'd lynch you just for posting to the forum from a crappy apple product, Also you have no idea how much time it took me to colour match the background colour of my avatar to the forum.... until i took a screen shot of the forum.. (sigh)

Well, I'm not sure what to think now I still haven't found a post where snake wants the entire town to hit karesh.

Edit: added the word to it's in bold

[Sifright]

more seriously though, Snake who do you think is most suspicious at the moment on the chance that you end up being the one lynched and you turn out to be town i'd like to work from a list of suspects you believe to be mafia

[Solid Snake]

Well, I'm not sure what to think now I still haven't found a post where snake wants the entire town to hit karesh.


Classic scum strategy when I'm Town is to hold my high activity against me by insinuating that I have directly said or am directly responsible for ideas or thoughts that spawned from conversations I initiated. Other people responded to my Karesh points by building up a narrative wherein everyone would target Karesh. Even I only advised the Vig to shoot Karesh if he has unlimited shots. Still do not see how that possibly correlates to what Nik is insinuating, but if he'd like to enlighten us, I'd like to learn something new

[Verifiedz]

whens it going to be nighttime

[Revising Ocelot]

All this bickering back and forth is well and good, but I'm getting highly concerned about the lack of greed and rpgdemon participation.

[Solid Snake]

more seriously though, Snake who do you think is most suspicious at the moment on the chance that you end up being the one lynched and you turn out to be town i'd like to work from a list of suspects you believe to be mafia

Nik, because he knows me quite well and, knowing my own role, the only justification for his complete misconstruance of my behavior is that he's an anti-town role.
What's weird is that this is not remotely how I'd play a game as SK. As SK I'd be much more quiet and inactive in hopes of lasting longer. And, all my activity really does not fit a discreet SK profile.
As SK I wouldn't give a shit about proving IHMN as Town and giving him an out when a bandwagon's started on him.

(Also, the SK's N1 target, most likely the 'stoned one of the Cult, in no way matches anyone scummy Snake would target.)

Nikose has made wonky, inaccurate and destructive predictions about me since D1, when he set me up to look scummy by claiming I'd die N1. I'm sort of honored that he's willing to sacrifice himself to take me out, but his unwillingness to consider any possibility other than a flawed hypothesis suggests he's Scum; he's too diligent to one-mindedly attach himself to a Snake SK fantasy as Town.

Just don't let him get away with this, is all I'm saying. Lynch me if you must, but make him and his scummates pay the price.
The one great thing about lynching someone really active like me, BTW, is that given my high activity and interactivity with everyone, once I flip you'll have a much better idea how everryone stands based on their degree of hostility / caution around me. That is something you won't glean by lynching Fawful.

I'll list more suspects once I have my computer

[Bard The 5th LW]

I personally am not going to lynch Snake tonight. There are some things about him that seem off at times, but I'd say it'd be worth giving him an extra day for all of us to gather evidence.

Nevertheless, Juliford and Fawfulcopter are pretty much the same vote, so I guess I'll change it to get a majority.

Unvote: Juliford

Vote: Fawfulcopet

[Gregness]

Just as a note: I'm visiting my folks for the weekend and prrobably won't have as much time to keep up with the ridiculous backlog this thread tends to generate.

[IHateMakingNames]

VOTE: SOLID SNAKE

We've seen through you, Seen your true colors.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/a5.png
HoS: Fawful
HoS: Verifiedz

Vote: Nikose

[rpgdemon]

All this bickering back and forth is well and good, but I'm getting highly concerned about the lack of greed and rpgdemon participation.

I literally just woke up, after posting that I was going to collapse into bed. And had another bunch of pages to read through.

As I said before, I'm not really around this weekend, until like sunday afternoon at the earliest. I'm out and about a lot on the weekends, but this one in particular, since I'm back at home visiting family. I'm not going to plan my weekend around not looking suspicious in Mafia.

[rpgdemon]

I mean, I get that two posts in what feels like 30 pages is suspicious, but those 30 pages happened over the course of a few hours.

[rpgdemon]

Classic scum strategy when I'm Town is to hold my high activity against me by insinuating that I have directly said or am directly responsible for ideas or thoughts that spawned from conversations I initiated. Other people responded to my Karesh points by building up a narrative wherein everyone would target Karesh. Even I only advised the Vig to shoot Karesh if he has unlimited shots. Still do not see how that possibly correlates to what Nik is insinuating, but if he'd like to enlighten us, I'd like to learn something new


I do want to know why you'd have said THAT though. More than anything, it makes no sense to me.

ESPECIALLY considering earlier you were all, "No one tell anyone to target anything! It's bad and scummy, since they can just watch someone and see who the power player is!" But now you're all for it?


The one great thing about lynching someone really active like me, BTW, is that given my high activity and interactivity with everyone, once I flip you'll have a much better idea how everryone stands based on their degree of hostility / caution around me. That is something you won't glean by lynching Fawful.

I'll list more suspects once I have my computer

And now you set the town up in an incredibly awkward position. You have been acting suspicious today, with the suggestion to Vig-kill Karesh. And now, anyone who calls you out on that, is likely to be scum, by what you said here.

If you are town: You're playing it to give the scum the advantage here, since you don't realize that you made a blundering statement that does incriminate you. If you're scum, then you've now set yourself up to make sure that no townie targets you, since "Well, he's a townie, and once he dies, they'll think I'm suspicious! Snake said so!"

vote: Snake

I'm willing to move my vote if you can allay these suspicions, but for now, that's how it's staying.

[rpgdemon]

Mafia could have a 'watcher' role (they do exist), either one-time or permanently. Mafia 'watches' Sifright and can view anyone who visits him. Presto! The Mafia knows who the Investigator is.


And in the same post:


General Rule: As investigator you NEVER LET YOURSELF BE TOLD WHO TO INVESTIGATE. You trust no one, do your own research, and don't reveal your role and your findings until you have to.


I misremembered slightly, but it seems like the same type of situation. Heck, later, it might be said, "Don't let yourself be told who to target, anyone with a power role", but I searched the thread for watcher.

[IHateMakingNames]

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/rainbowfly.gifhttp://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/flutterah.gif
I think IHMN stated agreement that you, Karesh, are Fluttershy. Then he stated his surprise that Snake thinks Fluttershy is a safe-listed role for Scum and wants Rainbow Dash (our supposed Vig) to test your claimed immunity to nightkills.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/RGzoF.png


vote: Snake
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/raritydonotwant.png

[Bard The 5th LW]

That totally counts as a text post.

[IHateMakingNames]

That totally counts as a text post.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/pinkieno-1.gif

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/b11.gifhttp://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/spikepolice.pnghttp://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/twilightdeal.gif

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/tumblr_lkzkjsPnJX1qha245o1_500.png

[Verifiedz]

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/a5.png
HoS: Fawful
HoS: Verifiedz

Vote: Nikose
you know im 11 right?

[rpgdemon]

That totally counts as a text post.

Why would you want him to be offed, even if it did?

Or, if he loses some power, to lose said power?

[Geminex]

Dude, he's kidding.

As for the rest... gah, I only skimmed it, but I have the feeling that we should not be lynching snake. At all.

[Bard The 5th LW]

It was a joke pal.

[Oron]

There's a lot of stuff I had to catch up on today.

Anyway, I'm iffy on the Snake vote right now, since he has made a lot of good points, despite his support for the Vig targeting Karesh (I still think that would be a waste of a night).

I want to see some life from Fawfulcopter, if he's actually been active at some point during this game.

I'll take some time to think over this while I do schoolwork/general Saturday activities.