My Little Pony: Friendship is Mafia

[rpgdemon]

Actually, thinking on it, the whole Fawful thing is probably more suspicious than the whole Snake thing. Mainly because he was active at night, and hasn't posted here, but wasn't replaced for inactivity.

Unvote:Snake
Vote: Fawful

I still think Snake is suspicious, but Fawful is more immediately suspicious.

[Fenris]

I need to clear up some misconceptions.

The people I replaced quit.

I have yet to prune inactives.

I also do not count merely submitting night roles as an active participant in my threads. Any of you who have ever played a game of mine ever should know this.

[Geminex]

While you're clearing up misconceptions, is it against the rules to post flavor text?

[Geminex]

Okay, wow. We are really getting caught up in this Sif/Karesh situation, aren't we? This is what the accusations against snake tie into, isn't it?

Right, what do we know. Sif said he knew who Fluttershy was and confirmed Karesh's roleclaim. Karesh claims to have immunity from being targeted at night as far as I can tell.

Snake thinks it's iffy that Fen would allow such a role to exist (which makes total sense, since it seems absurdly powerful) and has suggested that a good way to confirm Karesh's role would be for the vig to attempt a kill. Hmm.

We have 4 possible situations here:

Karesh and Sif both town: Plausible. In this case, everything is dandy. It'd be weird for Fen to put such an absurdly powerful fluttershy into the game, but that's the way it would be.

Karesh scum and Sif town: In this case, sif would've made his roleclaim in good faith, and Karesh would actually be fluttershy. It makes no sense, unless anyone here is willing to accept that fluttershy might be scummy. Not plausible.

Karesh town and Sif scum: Would make sense. Sif hasn't actually proven that he knows anything, and it'd fit in with his previous behavior. I still think the suicide thing is a bluff, I'll get back to this later. Sif would in this case probably have assumed that Fluttershy is the Doctor, and tried to get fluttershy to reveal themselves. Mind you, if this is the case, why'd Karesh not get nightkilled? I guess the mafia would've just believed Karesh's power claim.

Karesh and Sif both scum: The two would've set up the gambit to protect each other, both taking steps to avoid an investigation, Karesh by claiming immunity to night actions, Sifright by doing the suicide thing. It'd also explain why Karesh didn't get nightkilled.

So, 4 situations. 3 of those are at least plausible. We're trying to find out which it is. SO how to do it?

We can either test Karesh's claim to invulnerability, via Vig. Or we can lynch sif to alignment-check him. Neither are optimal, obviously.

If we lynch Sif, he's dead, no matter what the outcome is. If he turns out to be town, that's obviously bad. What's good is that, in this case, we kill Sif, but, in return, we get confirmation that Karesh is town, and thus have someone trustworthy. If he turns out to be mafia, which I actually think is likely, at this point, coolio. Point for us. The problem is that this still won't confirm if Karesh is town or scum.

Mind you, lynching happens at the end of the day. As such, if Sif is scum, the vig could still decide to go for Karesh and test his abilities. He couldn't test his alignment, mind you, he could simply test whether he's bulletproof.

Which brings us to the problem with our second option: We could let Sif live and rely on the Vig to check Karesh. But the problem with this is that we won't get anything conclusive. If Karesh is lying about being bulletproof, he dies, and we'll have a mafia kill, since I don't think a townie would claim to be immune to night actions. In addition, we'll know that Sif is Scum as well, and have two in the bag. This would be conclusive and awesome. However.

What if Karesh doesn't die? It wouldn't confirm his town status. He could simply be bulletproof scum. We'd have wasted a Vig kill, and wouldn't have anything to show for it. Hell, we might not even get a confirmation that the vig tried to kill Karesh.

While this method is good in that, if our suspicions that Karesh is falsely roleclaiming are correct, we won't kill any townies. But on the other hand, as I said, it's inconclusive. As an additonal downside this method relies on the Vig playing along, which, as Snake himself said, isn't a good thing.

Uhm. Both methods have pros and cons. I really don't think Snake favoring one over the other is evidence that he's the SK, even if he is contradicting himself.

I do think that Sif's sudden change of heart is weird. Nikose' argument didn't hold water, and, in fact, Sif's suicide would totally clear up this situation!

I certainly think that killing Sif is the better option, btw. I'd prefer to potentially sacrifice a townie and get something conclusive.

Right.

Does that make sense?

Edit:
TL; DR:
We should either lynch Sif or trust the vig to hit Karesh during this round, since it's important to clear up whether one or either of them are scum, and have the roles they claim to have. BOth solutions have advantages and disadvantages, but I'd really prefer to lynch sif, for reasons listed above. I definitely think we should do one of the two.

[Fenris]

While you're clearing up misconceptions, is it against the rules to post flavor text?

You may not copy/paste or otherwise post the entirety of your role PM.

So basically yes, but what Karesh did earlier is okay by me.

[Bard The 5th LW]

(which makes total sense, since it seems absurdly powerful)

Nope, its called Bulletproof. Me and RPG had it last game. You can be targeted, but not killed. A PO could scan you, but a Vig couldn't kill you. Only way to kill a bulletproof player is with a lynch.

[Solid Snake]

So I'm going to be out of town for IRL reasons tonight and I really don't feel like actually spending time on my one night to relax defending my continued existence here. So here's what I'd like to suggest. I want Nik and RPG and my other critics, when they have a spare moment, to articulate their exact reasoning as to why I am scummy. I want them to be as specific as possible. I do not want Nik in particular to continue his tired tactic of labeling me as SK and giving vague misconceptions and untruths as his foundation.

(It is possible that RPG has done this already, to be honest I'm not in a position tonight to properly assess his arguments and respond to them. Unlike all the inactive, barely-active, inconsistent, unproductive, suicidal and/or eleven year old kids in this game, **I DO NOT HALF-ASS THIS SHIT** feel free to countervote me for that deserved insult k thx)

Then I will spend all day tomorrow expressing how there is absolutely no way whatsoever that Mafiate and/or SK Snake would not have behaved in any way, shape or form like I'm behaving now.

In white text because I no longer give a shit about color, even! You've deprived me the enjoyment of Pinkie text!

[Geminex]

Karesh isn't just claiming bulletproof, though, I think. He's claiming immunity to night actions.

Karesh, that's right, isn't it?

Edit:

Waaaaaait a minute:
You may not copy/paste or otherwise post the entirety of your role PM.

So basically yes, but what Karesh did earlier is okay by me.
Not trying to metagame here, but doesn't this imply that Karesh's roleclaim is genuine?

[Sifright]

The only thing he claimed to be was immune to cult actions and later on stated he did not want the town doctor proctecting him. I'm pretty sure he is immune to being killed/switched presumably not immune to other actions.

If your dead set on lynching me go ahead as i've stated already doing so kills a townie but does give the town a person they can work with and trust. I'm pretty certain fluttershy is town orientated although it's a little worrying that my pm didn't specify that only that I knew karesh was fluttershy.

If you go back and read my posts you will notice that I was reluctant to reveal what i knew. The only reason i was reluctant was because I knew the character was 'fluttershy'
which almost certainly had to be a power role given the flavour of the game and the only character I thought was likely to be the doctor was fluttershy, Obviously that assumption was wrong or Karesh wouldn't have been so willing to throw his role out there for me to confirm.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Might not be bulletproof either. Could just be the 'bomb', as in taking down an enemy with her. just my two cents.

[Fenris]

Not trying to metagame here, but doesn't this imply that Karesh's roleclaim is genuine?

It implies that stating "the wording of this short snippet of stuff is" is okay by me.

Whether or not he fabricated that wording is for me to know and you to find out.

[Sifright]

The information i had to work with was "You can only remember Karesh is fluttershy"

Now I could have immediately stated Karesh was a townie, but with both no explanation for my knowledge and no idea of the actual characters role it would have been foolish for me to do that, so I tried to look for away to say "Hey i'm town lets try and work together" Obviously i screwed up pretty badly.

Now onto analysis of peoples posts.

Verifiedz recently asked when night starts, worrying about night time actions is a fairly typically scum thing to do but it could easily be down to lack of knowledge on how the game works. One thing to keep in mind is that Scum almost always want the day to end early and for quick lynchs.

Nikose, Spread false information about snake and then had to leave suddenly it's obviously possible that Nikose actually had to go but it also gives him time to think of a way to minimize his actions and rationalize his mistakes to us

Snake, wanted the Vig to use a night action on Karesh To prove that he is immune but we don't know that failed night actions will actually result in any flavour text In snakes game when i was the doctor i wasn't informed that i saved some one until after the game ended, So snake wants us to potentially waste a vig action on a confirm and certainly waste a vig action that should be used to attack mafia to attack a townie which is silly.

Snake and Nikose are top of my list.

Gem, Is suspicious of me because I fucked up royally with how i handled my knowledge and because I attempted to suicide earlier. I don't think he is mafia at this moment in time.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

The only thing he claimed to be was immune to cult actions and later on stated he did not want the town doctor proctecting him. I'm pretty sure he is immune to being killed/switched presumably not immune to other actions.

I initially said that the cult couldn't turn me because I was hesitant to abandon the possibility that the mafia would throw a night kill away on me. But afterward I realized that it was equally possible that were my gambit on gaining verification was successful, a doctor/bg might have a possibility of wasting their night action on me.
The reason I said that first and foremost was because with that minimal amount of information I could verify that I would never become cult at any point. No matter how many days went by, as long as I went through and succeeded in convincing everyone that I was town for Day 1, there'd be no chance of a later claim of "Well sure he was then but what if he got cultified?"

[Sifright]

Also for whats it's worth if we lynch either Snake or Nikose and they turn out to be mafia I'm pretty sure both of them will be Mafia. It's a fairly standard mafia tactic to point fingers at each other but never actually push for an actual lynch on their own members.

[Solid Snake]

Snake, wanted the Vig to use a night action on Karesh To prove that he is immune but we don't know that failed night actions will actually result in any flavour text In snakes game when i was the doctor i wasn't informed that i saved some one until after the game ended, So snake wants us to potentially waste a vig action on a confirm and certainly waste a vig action that should be used to attack mafia to attack a townie

What the heck is it about qualifying language that you all don't understand.
First, I'm not even the first person who recommended the Vig action. I APPROVED of IHMN's otherwise decent solution to a conundrum I posited.
Second, what I said was ACTUALLY laced with qualifiers. The Vig should consider testing Karesh IF AND ONLY IF he has unlimited shots. And the Vig should not be instructed by town to necessarily do this N2. I have BEEN ON RECORD saying I'd be fine waiting until like D4 to test Karesh.

Lost in all of this:
Karesh may still not be Town
Sifright may have been fed false info
OR they may be scummates
Like I don't see what's so terrible about me being healthy in my suspicion of Karesh's near-perfectly invulnerable role

WHY AM I DOING this now typing this on an iPod is torture

Snake and Nikose are top of my list.

Gem, Is suspicious of me because I fucked up royally with how i handled my knowledge and because I attempted to suicide earlier. I don't think he is mafia at this moment in time.[/QUOTE]

[Sifright]

No I understand qualifying language perfectly well snake it doesn't change that fact that if the vig has infinite attacks you want to the vig to attack some one to confirm they are town. Not to mention your saying you were okay to wait till d4 to confirm that was in relation to lynching me not in relation to vig testing him

[Sifright]

It's almost impossible at this point that I've been fed patently false information, Unless fenris set it up that before the game even began, the pm I received from him containing my role also contained the information about karesh, and i find it impossible to believe that fluttershy would be an evil role.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I highly doubt that Sif has false info. He's lying or he isn't, no two ways about it. If one is scum, then the other probably is too.

[Revising Ocelot]

Well, Sif's knowledge about Karesh is the only thing he "remembers", and given such a specific detail I doubt his "memory" is playing silly buggers. In that case they'd both be town. The alternative is that Sif is lying and both of them are scum - which, considering Karesh's claims to be bulletproof and Sif actually getting a good vote train on himself when he went into Vindication Mode, I find unlikely. I don't think there's any use of them concocting such a scheme if they were Scum, and it's also begging to be Police investigated anyway, which'd reveal the truth. It's essentially pointless.

[rpgdemon]

In snakes game when i was the doctor i wasn't informed that i saved some one until after the game ended

This is what I think is most important about the entire thing. I didn't know you saved someone as doctor, last game, and I figured it was just an inactive night for the scum.

Snake, if you said it's okay if the Vig attempts a kill and it's failed, wouldn't you have wanted to mention that there would likely be no flavor text for it? Especially since that wouldn't have been obvious. It wouldn't be a confirmation of Fluttershy, unless the Vig went out and said, "I TRIED, AND IT FAILED, BUT THERE WAS NO FLAVOR FOR IT. ALSO, I'M THE VIG. HOPEFULLY I DON'T DIE."

The reason I'm calling you out on it instead of anyone else who was behind the plan is that you ran a game where a failed kill lead to no flavor text. Heck, I didn't even know there was a failed kill in the Homestuck game until today.

[Sifright]

Yea If you go back to the game thread and check you will notice that Snake specifically mentions it in the after game report, I forget who it was who I saved but I think a player quit who was town can't remember the circumstances we had no way to verify that it was so but as doctor i presumed he would be unlikely to lie and then quit so i used my doctor role to protect his replacement that night and bam inactive night.

[Sifright]

Point of Irony the guy I saved as doctor in the last game was Karesh.

[Sifright]

Yea I'm still for lynching Snake the more I look things over. I mean he was massively against an investigative role being used to role check either my self or Karesh, but he is fine with the Vigilante role checking Karesh assuming he has infinite uses of the power. It doesn't jibe that he would flip flop on an issue like that

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Point of Irony the guy I saved as doctor in the last game was Karesh.

Karesh: 3

EveryotherponyexceptforSifright: 0

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/grthwllms/CNYFZ.gif

[Sifright]

Karesh what are your thoughts on whats going on as your basically the only player I know for a fact is town.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Karesh what are your thoughts on whats going on as your basically the only player I know for a fact is town.

If it comes down to Nikose or Snake I think Snake's the more likely candidate.

The thing about Nikose and Snake are they're both trying to play a game with all of us as chess pieces. What Snake does is suspicious at times, primarily because you can see how what he's doing would add up to him checkmating you. He acts suspicious because he's performing actions that lead toward a victory for himself. If he's town, that means performing actions of benefit to the town. If he's scum, he's doing the opposite. So while that's pretty terrible, Nikose is worse in his own demented way.

See, no matter which side of the board Nikose is on his moves make no sense. If he's town and acting suspiciously, it's because Nikose is weird. If he's mafia and acting suspiciously it's because Nikose is weird.

Nikose is playing a game with all the players as chess pieces, but he's using them to play Monopoly.

[Sifright]

See my worry is that both of them end up being mafia, basically using the tactic of conflict like that to ensure that neither of them ends up being suspicious when the other is lynched, the only thing stoping me from being completely certain of that is that it would appear completely unneeded.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I forgot the final points there:


See, the thing is Snake's done shit that's suspicious and of detriment to the town. He's claimed this is because he's playing a roulette, baiting and trapping but ultimately he has no way to prove that's what he was doing.

Nikose on the other hand has done suspicious stuff because he's absolutely mental.

[Sifright]

If it comes down to Nikose or Snake I think Snake's the more likely candidate.

The thing about Nikose and Snake are they're both trying to play a game with all of us as chess pieces. What Snake does is suspicious at times, primarily because you can see how what he's doing would add up to him checkmating you. He acts suspicious because he's performing actions that lead toward a victory for himself. If he's town, that means performing actions of benefit to the town. If he's scum, he's doing the opposite. So while that's pretty terrible, Nikose is worse in his own demented way.

See, no matter which side of the board Nikose is on his moves make no sense. If he's town and acting suspiciously, it's because Nikose is weird. If he's mafia and acting suspiciously it's because Nikose is weird.

Nikose is playing a game with all the players as chess pieces, but he's using them to play Monopoly.


Thought about what you said a bit more, I'm more worried about what snakes doing after thinking about it because setting your self up as the person who other people listen to lynch others as a townie is pretty useless for your self as you personally still won't know who is and isn't mafia, basically it's most beneficial if you are mafia to play that way.

[rpgdemon]

Karesh: 3

EveryotherponyexceptforSifright: 0

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m107/grthwllms/CNYFZ.gif

I greatly enjoy that Fluttershy is actually in beat with the arrows.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Thought about what you said a bit more, I'm more worried about what snakes doing after thinking about it because setting your self up as the person who other people listen to lynch others as a townie is pretty useless for your self as you personally still won't know who is and isn't mafia, basically it's most beneficial if you are mafia to play that way.

This actually comes back to a point I made earlier, the place for Mafia to be is almost always where they're least likely to be targeted. In the earlier days even as any form of scum being the leader is dangerous. The cult loves power roles and leaders, because they're the two things that'll give them an edge over their initial population disadvantage.

If I'm to be honest for a moment, Snake underwent a small change from Day 1 to Day 2, his advice and directions became sharper, far more directed. This could either be because he felt far more secure with the cult gone, or it could simply be a matter of his suspicions becoming more focused and confirmed.

[Sifright]

Okay guys I want to see your walls of text, Lets have every one post up who they think is suspicious and a clear concise list of your reasoning. Let's not lynch people like we did in the homestuck mafia game.

Unvote: Snake

Only unvoting him because I don't want us to form a bandwagon and end the day early until we have every one actually explain why they are doing things. Town needs information to survive and win so FFS every provide it.

Nikose is next on my shit list for misrepresenting alot of stuff that snake said.

So In order of suspicion I have

Snake
Nikose

IHMN

Beyond that I've nothing, my suspicion for IHMN is predicated on Snake turning out to be mafia if and when lynched later on. I also don't believe fenris to be enough of a bastard to force some one to have to post only images to respond to people

[Sifright]

Right I'm off to bed, 2am will be on again in six hours or so.

[Aldurin]

I also don't believe fenris to be enough of a bastard to force some one to have to post only images to respond to people

You don't know Fenris then.

[rpgdemon]

Does anyone object to asking IHMN to post a picture of the pony he's supposed to be? I can't see how it would help scum, and it'd help us by seeing if the flavor made sense, and if no one else claims that pony.

[Bard The 5th LW]

He's already done so. He's Derpy Whooves, one scene wonder background character.

[rpgdemon]

Ah, yeah, I'd be able to buy that.

[IHateMakingNames]

Karesh and Sif both town: Plausible.
We could let Sif live and rely on the Vig to check Karesh.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/pinkiepie.gif

Snake, if you said it's okay if the Vig attempts a kill and it's failed, wouldn't you have wanted to mention that there would likely be no flavor text for it? Especially since that wouldn't have been obvious. It wouldn't be a confirmation of Fluttershy, unless the Vig went out and said, "I TRIED, AND IT FAILED, BUT THERE WAS NO FLAVOR FOR IT. ALSO, I'M THE VIG. HOPEFULLY I DON'T DIE."
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/BonBonShrug.png

[Aldurin]

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/EvilEarl/strongbad-1.jpg

Synopsis of the following ~ And thus Earl drew his pistol and shot Geminex where he stood, and nobody did a thing because sadly, Earl ran this town.

So apparently I'm the fucking ruler of PonyVille, and because of that I can override the lynch vote 2 times during this game.

Lynch Override: Geminex

I just starting using the search function to look at the post lineup for each player. Geminex seems to be trying to shake things up so we get lynches at each other going without any decent evidence (which would nail townies for the mafia). If I'm wrong then I take responsibility, but this should shake up the mafia a bit more since they now know that I can put them down on the spot if I become absolutely sure.

To Gem: Nothing personal, this is just what I see from your posts. No need to bring this up until the endgame discussion thread should you anything to say (I'm serious, not even in the Umbral chat).

[rpgdemon]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess you could have PMed Fenris, instead of giving away your role. Maybe not though?

[Aldurin]

Nah, I have to stick my neck out in order to scream "Fuck you!" at whoever I think is definitely scum. So yeah, when Fenris shows up Geminex is going to be whatever-the-fucked and night 2 will begin.

[Aldurin]

In retrospect I should have used the King of Town instead of Strongbad to add to the drama.

[IHateMakingNames]

So apparently I'm the fucking ruler of PonyVille, and because of that I can override the lynch vote 2 times during this game.

Lynch Override: Geminex

I just starting using the search function to look at the post lineup for each player. Geminex seems to be trying to shake things up so we get lynches at each other going without any decent evidence (which would nail townies for the mafia). If I'm wrong then I take responsibility, but this should shake up the mafia a bit more since they now know that I can put them down on the spot if I become absolutely sure.

To Gem: Nothing personal, this is just what I see from your posts. No need to bring this up until the endgame discussion thread should you anything to say (I'm serious, not even in the Umbral chat).
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/NuklearFenris/Reaction%20Images/Twilight-BiteLip.gif

[Ryanderman]

Whelp... um... whelp.

So much for catching up and trying to make a well reasoned contribution and vote. That'll teach me.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Jeses Christ on a cracker Earl has the power.

I honestly think that Gem isn't scum, he's just naturally shifty. And unless you are bulletproof then I seriously think you posted a target on your head.

[Aldurin]

Nah, I'm actually trying to kill Gem.

FoS: Bard

For trying to defend Gem. I will do an un-FoS for this if Gem is town.

[Fenris]

"The Mayor has spoken for the town!" Celestia exclaimed. Geminex, Applejack, Element of Honesty, (Bodyguard) town-aligned was brought to the stage.

"Ah tell ya, I ain't done nothin' wrong to nopony!" Applejack cried.

"The town has spoken! Should you prove innocent, we can get you back from the moon. Probably," Celestia replied.

And lo, Geminex was sent to the moon.

Night 2 is now! Deadline will be Wednesday nightish!

[Geminex]

http://i.imgur.com/0gMrs.png

[Nikose Tyris]

http://tauntsociety.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/soon-horse.jpg

[Fenris]

In the Everfree forest:

The nightly mare slowly crept towards the unassuming hut. Unfortunately for the mare, the resident of said hut was not nearly as daft as the rest of the easily tricked ponies.

"What sort of creature dares to roam this near to my humble home?" Zecora yelled.

The mare took off in a gallop, plunging deeper into the Everfree forest. The zebra pursued her, yelling in rhyme the entire time while.

Minutes, or perhaps hours, or perhaps some combination of the two later, the mare had managed to elude the zebra.

"I had almost caught that Nightmare... she was practically right there! Now how am I to return to my chamber, when I am this far lost in nature?"

A rustling of the bushes to her right caught her attention. As she cautiously drew nearer to investigate, she prodded the shrub, peering into the foiliage. Unfortunately for her, the beady red eyes of the cockatrice peered back at her.

"No! No-" the zebra cried, stumbling backwards. Unfortunately, she was too far petrified to be able to will her way back into the realm of flesh and blood.

------------------

"I can surely find the bottom of this. Think, Rainbow, think!" the peagasus muttered, flying aimlessly over Ponyville. "I got it! Pinkie Pie knows everypony in Ponyville! I'm sure she's noticed if any of them have been acting weird lately!"

Proud of her plan, Rainbow Dash sped off towards Sugarcube Corner. Unfortunately for Pinkie Pie and the Cakes, Rainbow forgot to apply her brakes before crashing into the bakery, taking out a wall and scattering the pastries about.

"Heya Dashie!~" Pinkie Pie cheerily called.

"Sorry Pinks," Dash replied.

"It's okay, Dashie! I'll just clean this mess up instead of helping the town find the mafia!"

"...What?"

"Dum-de-dum-de-doo~" Pinkie sing-songed, hopping about and picking up the spills.

"I don't even-What-Pinkie-huh?" Rainbow stuttered out.

"Can't talk now! I'm not in the game anymore~! See you later Dashie!"

"Buh-wha..."

"Bye bye~!"

Solid Snake, Zecora and Fawfulcopter, Pinkie Pie are missing from the town square this morning!

Day 3! 15 Players left, 8 to lynch! Deadline eventually!

[Sifright]

Holy shit Earl man, what were you thinking!

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7358/10363132.jpghttp://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2564/10388918.jpg

Okay guys I want to see your walls of text, Lets have every one post up who they think is suspicious and a clear concise list of your reasoning. Let's not lynch people like we did in the homestuck mafia game.

unvoting him because I don't want us to form a bandwagon and end the day early until we have every one actually explain why they are doing things. Town needs information to survive and win so FFS every provide it.



http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7370/9928770.jpg

Seriously man I typed that shit up for a reason, hasty decisions fuck town over so hard don't pull that shit again. Second bloody day where analysis of voting pattern isn't usable and you bloody well killed not only a townie but a freaking power role. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2300/9327593.jpg

In the Everfree forest:

The nightly mare slowly crept towards the unassuming hut. Unfortunately for the mare, the resident of said hut was not nearly as daft as the rest of the easily tricked ponies.

"What sort of creature dares to roam this near to my humble home?" Zecora yelled.

The mare took off in a gallop, plunging deeper into the Everfree forest. The zebra pursued her, yelling in rhyme the entire time while.

Minutes, or perhaps hours, or perhaps some combination of the two later, the mare had managed to elude the zebra.

"I had almost caught that Nightmare... she was practically right there! Now how am I to return to my chamber, when I am this far lost in nature?"

A rustling of the bushes to her right caught her attention. As she cautiously drew nearer to investigate, she prodded the shrub, peering into the foiliage. Unfortunately for her, the beady red eyes of the cockatrice peered back at her.

"No! No-" the zebra cried, stumbling backwards. Unfortunately, she was too far petrified to be able to will her way back into the realm of flesh and blood.

------------------

"I can surely find the bottom of this. Think, Rainbow, think!" the peagasus muttered, flying aimlessly over Ponyville. "I got it! Pinkie Pie knows everypony in Ponyville! I'm sure she's noticed if any of them have been acting weird lately!"

Proud of her plan, Rainbow Dash sped off towards Sugarcube Corner. Unfortunately for Pinkie Pie and the Cakes, Rainbow forgot to apply her brakes before crashing into the bakery, taking out a wall and scattering the pastries about.

"Heya Dashie!~" Pinkie Pie cheerily called.

"Sorry Pinks," Dash replied.

"It's okay, Dashie! I'll just clean this mess up instead of helping the town find the mafia!"

"...What?"

"Dum-de-dum-de-doo~" Pinkie sing-songed, hopping about and picking up the spills.

"I don't even-What-Pinkie-huh?" Rainbow stuttered out.

"Can't talk now! I'm not in the game anymore~! See you later Dashie!"

"Buh-wha..."

"Bye bye~!"

Solid Snake, Zecora and Fawfulcopter, Pinkie Pie are missing from the town square this morning!

Day 3! 15 Players left, 8 to lynch! Deadline eventually!

Well thats not good :|

[Nikose Tyris]

... :| So apparently Snake wasn't the SK. My bad, brosef?

[IHateMakingNames]

"The Mayor has spoken for the town!" Celestia exclaimed. Geminex, Applejack, Element of Honesty, (Bodyguard) town-aligned was brought to the stage.

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/gildamad.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/rarityhead.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/raritycry.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/spikedissapointed.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/tumblr_lq3gyuOKWL1qf1bz5.jpg

Vote: Aldurin
http://www.dreamwidth.org/userpic/836566/572328

[IHateMakingNames]

Vote: Nikose
http://www.dreamwidth.org/userpic/836562/572328

[Nikose Tyris]

Whoever is the SK, clearly cared more about making me look like an idiot then strategy, just throwing that out there.

[Sifright]

Vote: Nikose

How ever I believe we need to look at the people who were keen to vote Fawful off, from what i've seen of past games inactives don't tend to be mafia.

[Solid Snake]

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/242/a/3/zecora_wut__by_yoshi20111-d48bpue.jpg

[Nikose Tyris]

I suppose I should probably roleclaim now, huh?


ROLECLAIM: CARROT TOP - Nosey Neighbor.

See, I was told that I was the PO role. I targetted Smarty Night 0, and Snake night 1. I got "Cult" for Smarty, and I got "Serial Killer" for Snake. :/ Clearly I'm a broken PO, or a random misrole, so I'm pretty much useless here.

Also IHMN turned up Town so uh, take that with a grain of salt? If I'm a wrong-PO, then he's bad and his roleclaim was bull. If It's right then, well, another confirmed town?

I don't expect this to save me at all, mind you. I just figured I'd divulge all my information before I die, and sorry I wasn't more use. :/

[Bard The 5th LW]

I told you Aldurin. I told you so hard. Seriously, the mob probably left you alive on the off chance you recklessly kill someone again.

Do we have any way of knowing what there roles were? We learned Applejacks, but not these two. We need to know what we're missing.

ALso, anyone refuting Nik's roleclaim? Seems weird though. Is a broken PO a common thing?

[Sifright]

I think Zecora is the doctor, based on the show. So i think we are pretty much fucked.

[Revising Ocelot]

@Nikose

What? We didn't start the game with any other Night actions or kills,so I very much you could have done a Night 0 investigation. And we'd already established Smarty as Cult.

You're horseponyshitting your roleclaim. And I'd wager you're trying to draw the real Police Officer (assuming there's one) out of cover to dispute that claim. Which'd make him an easy Mafia target.

I already suspected you earlier of being a Jester due to your various horseponyshit throughout the game, this just reinforces it. Can we get the Vigilante to take you out to save us the effort of a lynch?

[Revising Ocelot]

For reference, a Jester would be very much anti-town, but not Mafia aligned. If they get lynched, they win. And you've been acting deliberately weird all the time.

[Sifright]

Despite my rather great dislike of the mistake aldurin made with him being confirmed town I can't afford to over look the increased chances that exist to hit mafia.

Putting myself Aldurin and Karesh together gives us 3 of 15 players as a cohesive voting block. Which is a fairly statiscally relevant 20% of which aren't mafia. now I'm presuming there are a total of five mafia and one SK. This leads to 6 out of 15 being Scum. meaning any one my self or karesh votes for has a 50/50 chance of being scum assuming we were to pick randomly.

[Sifright]

I also Agree with Ro's assessment I don't believe there were Night 0 actions and I'm not suggesting we vote randomly. For christ sake this round we MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST NOT FAST LYNCH. If we fast lynch this time I'm quiting this bloody game because your all playing it WRONG.

[Revising Ocelot]

Yeah, Aldurin? Don't DERPITY DERP out on us and override lynch Nikose. That'd be a bad idea. Leave it to the Vig.

[Nikose Tyris]

@Nikose

What? We didn't start the game with any other Night actions or kills,so I very much you could have done a Night 0 investigation. And we'd already established Smarty as Cult.

If you read back, you'll see I snuck in the Cult leader thing on Smarty in one of my earliest posts disguised as silliness, to get the information out there. My role fits for having night 0 power, and there's no reason to assume that it wouldn't; it's fairly common across different games to have some powers activate night 0 when they make sense. Mine made sense.

You're horseponyshitting your roleclaim. And I'd wager you're trying to draw the real Police Officer (assuming there's one) out of cover to dispute that claim. Which'd make him an easy Mafia target.

That's stupid and you're stupid for saying it. The real PO would know to ignore this claim because the town is likely to murder me anyway. Any PO that would step up and call me out would have to be outright stupid.

I already suspected you earlier of being a Jester due to your various horseponyshit throughout the game, this just reinforces it. Can we get the Vigilante to take you out to save us the effort of a lynch?

Suspect all you want, but my posts were anything but ponyshit. Read back and compare against what we know now. You'll see that my information lines up. All made with the assumption I had special role knowledge.

Act as you will- I'm heading home from campus and I don't know when I'll have net next- I'm working the election all day Thursday and definitely won't be online.

[Aldurin]

Well I never really liked Applejack anyway.

Hey, now we know that Gem isn't scum.

Relying on the doctor is a bad tactic, good thing I got rid of him.

That was the worst thing that could possibly happen, and I regret it. I may have lost the game for the town right there and then.

I lied about the having 2 overrides, I only have one. The idea I had would be to make myself the main target for the scum and then the . . . bodyguard . . . would . . . *starts weeping*.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Aldurin you are a danger to the team.

So if not Nikose, then who is most suspicious? Whose worthy of the lynch? We know for a fact that Earl is town, and we have some samll confirmation in regard to Sif/Karesh. If Sif or Karesh turn out to be scum, then we get a 2 for 1 package, and vice verse.

[Revising Ocelot]

Yeah, also assuming we have no actual working Doctor, there's no point for Nikose to roleclaim when he knows he had faulty info. He says he's already assumed he'd be dead either by town lynch or mafia when:

A) No actual voting train started on him yet.
B) If he was a faulty PO then the Mafia/SK would know not to target him but to go for other people who may have other, non-faulty roles. Stays anonymous, he's still in the firing line and thus 'saves' a proper role if he gets targeted.

[Sifright]

At this point I don't know what to do, had aldurin waited until people explained what they were thinking and doing previous game day we could have learned a lot more. I'm not going to belabor the point any further though we need to work together and fucking EVERY one needs to explain their reasoning behind doing shit from now on.

I'm still for voting Nikose because I don't believe him and on the off chance that he is telling the truth about his role it may tell us more about whether IHMN is trust worthy. I don't like the idea of killing a potential towny for that but the stuff nikose was saying about Snake was based on alot of half truths and the one thing townies should never ever do is lie. Lieing as a townie only ever hurts town unless your hiding your own power role.

I'm going to go back over the thread and check who was voting for fawful copter though, I've a suspicion that most of the people keen to kill fawful will be mafia.

[Sifright]

Ok from what i can see only Smarty voted for Fawful.

How ever Hawk showed a fair amount of interest in him earlier in the thread and wanted to push people towards him.

So my list of suspicions are

Nikose (Lied about stuff snake said)
Hawk (interested in Fawfulcopter)
Bard (Posted about Fawful as well *tenous link*)

[Bard The 5th LW]

Of note, Rainbow Dash killed Fawful, and Rainbow Dash is the vig. The person who took down Fawful was Town, not Mafia. Either the Mafia lost interest, or ir was just fkavor text? I dunno.

[Sifright]

Yes the vigilante killed Fawful, This is true but targeting inactives is a typically Mafia action for day attempts because Hey if they get it wrong Whoops we killed an inactive no worries guys. So they people pushing for it during day usually have mafia links

[Sifright]

Mafia typically don't hide in activity because it paints a large target on them for potential power roles to look into them, Also Inactives tend to be town power roles hiding away. I know when I was town doctor in homestuck I posted very little because I didn't want to risk having attention put on me, here I have no such problem because i'm basically a nilla townie.

[Ryanderman]

Ok from what i can see only Smarty voted for Fawful.

How ever Hawk showed a fair amount of interest in him earlier in the thread and wanted to push people towards him.

So my list of suspicions are

Nikose (Lied about stuff snake said)
Hawk (interested in Fawfulcopter)
Bard (Posted about Fawful as well *tenous link*)

From a quick scan through the thread, I've also found that at least:

Gregness
Karesh
Snake
Aldurin
Verifiedz
rpgdemon

all also voted for Fawfulcopter at one point or another. Don't know what that tells us.

Lieing as a townie only ever hurts town unless your hiding your own power role.

Not to defend Nikose, as I don't know that I particularly believe him at this point either, but it jumped out at me that if his is town, this is exactly what he was trying to do. Use the info he thought he had without revealing his role.

[Sifright]

Is there a way to increase the posts per page beyond 40? I'm finding it increasingly hard to search through the thread for valid information especially when most of the activity in the thread happens around midnight or later.

[Sifright]

Also guys another thing to consider when/if we lynch Nikose and if he pops as Mafia the fact he labeled Ihmn as town doesn't mean he isn't. If I was mafia and blagging a PO role i'd certainly claim that a townie was a townie in an attempt to push suspicion onto him for the next day as a way to play the long game.

[Ryanderman]

Is there a way to increase the posts per page beyond 40? I'm finding it increasingly hard to search through the thread for valid information especially when most of the activity in the thread happens around midnight or later.
I don't know of any way. It is frustrating.


It suddenly occured to me, while I congratulating myself for being an astute observer and calling Nikose's role yesterday (or, calling what Nikose thought was his role at least), that I could have inadvertently given him the inspiration for a bogus role claim. Blarg, wish I'd never mentioned it. Would have made believing his claim today a lot easier for me.

[IHateMakingNames]

Can we get the Vigilante to take you out to save us the effort of a lynch?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/twilightpout.png
Unvote: Nikose


Vote: Ryanderman
HoS: Gregness


tell us more about whether IHMN is trust worthy.
labeled Ihmn as town doesn't mean he isn't.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/facehoof.png

[Sifright]

It's one of the reasons townies need to be very very tight lipped about roles they think people have. For one thing if you are right it might draw mafia onto them.

[Sifright]

IHMN, If he is Mafia then everything he said is bullshit and has to be ignored for the most part. If he is town then it leads some credence to you being town. There are roles that have chances of giving false information from mafia wikis i've read. basically If he is town chances of you being town are higher if he is mafia then it doesn't say alot about whether you are or aren't.


Edit: I blame it being passed midnight and the fact that i've flu at the moment.,

Edit edit: For any inconsistencies in what I say.

[Sifright]

IHMN Could you try to explain with gifs your reasoning for voting Ryanderman?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well, that was a headdesk moment right there. Aldurin, please don't do that. Ever again.

It's like quarter to 1 at night here right now so I'll try to catch up tomorrow sometime but for now it's interesting to note at least that the mafia didn't make a kill last night, only the sk and the vig. So either they were blocked by someone or they just never got their votes in.

So it could have been worse. Not much mind, but still.

[Verifiedz]

ugh this is sooo much to read. VOTE:NIKOSE

[Revising Ocelot]

ugh this is sooo much to read. VOTE:NIKOSE

Then read.

._.

[IHateMakingNames]

IHMN Could you try to explain with gifs your reasoning for voting Ryanderman?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/spike3-1.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/4oLPO.gif

[Sifright]

truthfully I was hoping you would just post a wall of gifs :)

[Bard The 5th LW]

H.O.S: Verifiedz, Nikose, Hawk.

Hawk has had an odd amount of consistency with popping in an out. Staying long enough to be active, but not as much as the rest. Although, he may very well be busy, so his is a lighter case.

All reasons for Nikose have pretty much been laid out, but there is still the lingering possibility that he is Town and telling the truth, or that he wants to get lynched. Might just want to the Vig to get him to dodge the possibility of a lynch trap. If he is lying though, then does that mean IHMN loses validity to his roleclaim? (Probably not)

Verifiedz is I dunno. He might just not get the game, but that is sorta dangerous to I guess? Look what we got with Earl, a dead body guard. We really can't afford to waste a lynch though since are Doctor and Bodyguard are dead.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Of note about IHMN, I doubt he is bs'ing us, but his roleclaim and the posting of Gifs over actual text alllows him to get away without really having to explain much, and thus no one in particular is inclined to go after him.

I personally don't think anyone would put themselves through that kind of torment on purpose though.

[Sifright]

Okay guys we SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER Rely on the Vig to kill a person in games where the night text doesn't tell you the alignment of the person who died. It's entirely possible that Nikose could be mafia and still be using that characters name and with a vig killing him we wouldn't learn his alignment if we truly believe some one to be mafia we have to vote lynch him otherwise we learn sod all. Like if we have two targets and the vig is sure then the vig going for a second one is fine. Also the 'jester' usually leads to a town draw if he is lynched rather than the jester winning out right and so we can ignore that possibility because it doesn't really have any effect on the later game.

[Revising Ocelot]

it's interesting to note at least that the mafia didn't make a kill last night, only the sk and the vig. So either they were blocked by someone or they just never got their votes in.

I doubt the former, but maybe we do have a working Doctor after all? We've already got one "Doctor" who can't actually do any Doctor...ing. I just assumed there wouldn't be a Doc as it's fairly synonymous with the Bodyguard. That does lead more credence to Nikose being a faulty PO as there could be a working PO too... but then, by that same standard Sifright would have been told that he could save people, which he denies. Hmph.

[Revising Ocelot]

I doubt the former

EDIT: latter. I meant I doubt they didn't get their votes in.

[rpgdemon]

Despite my rather great dislike of the mistake aldurin made with him being confirmed town I can't afford to over look the increased chances that exist to hit mafia.

Putting myself Aldurin and Karesh together gives us 3 of 15 players as a cohesive voting block. Which is a fairly statiscally relevant 20% of which aren't mafia. now I'm presuming there are a total of five mafia and one SK. This leads to 6 out of 15 being Scum. meaning any one my self or karesh votes for has a 50/50 chance of being scum assuming we were to pick randomly.

Well, we can't trust yourself and Karesh. So we have 1/15 players that we know isn't scum.

I'm still for voting Nikose because I don't believe him and on the off chance that he is telling the truth about his role it may tell us more about whether IHMN is trust worthy. I don't like the idea of killing a potential towny for that but the stuff nikose was saying about Snake was based on alot of half truths and the one thing townies should never ever do is lie. Lieing as a townie only ever hurts town unless your hiding your own power role.

Based on what Snake was saying earlier, going off of what we've seen from previous games, was last game your first game? Since, I remember you being no where near this proactive. You're definitely acting differently than you were before, but it might just be the difference between your first game and a second game.

Ok from what i can see only Smarty voted for Fawful.

How ever Hawk showed a fair amount of interest in him earlier in the thread and wanted to push people towards him.

So my list of suspicions are

Nikose (Lied about stuff snake said)
Hawk (interested in Fawfulcopter)
Bard (Posted about Fawful as well *tenous link*)

As someone mentioned above, a fair number of people voted Fawful, actually. Myself included. As such, I'm hesitant to think anyone who voted Fawful is scum. :P

I voted him because he was active during the nighttime, but hadn't posted at all in the thread, and also because I had assumed Fenris had made inactive replacements, but he said that he hadn't.

Also, Aldurin, stop being so gung ho about who you think is scum. Last game you did it to me, and killed the bulletproof, this game you killed the doctor. D:< Additional bluh bluhs.

In general actually, I encourage everyone to keep an open mind and be willing to change what you think about people, either scum or town, if given reason not to vote someone. I mean, make sure it's a GOOD reason, but I'm just thinking back to last game, where there were like 50 reasons not to lynch me, and Aldurin just kept going, "NOPE, NOT LISTENING, YOU'RE SCUM SCUMMY SCUM SCUM YOU SHOULD STOP ARGUING."

[Verifiedz]

Well maybe it is that i dont get the game, but its gonna take like a half hour to read all that stuff. I dont have the patience.i read a bit but otherwise nothing.

[rpgdemon]

Also, I think the mafia were the nightmarish mare that visited Zacora, then got chased away.

Zacora seems like she was a bulletproof role, but then got killed off because of a second attack, which is exactly how my bulletproof role worked last game. It even implied that she wouldn't have been killed by the SK, had she not been so distracted, since she would have been able to will herself back from stone.

I don't know how likely it is that we have two bulletproofs, but having one who has unlimited immunity to everything, and one who has only a single kill block doesn't seem right. I'm really suspicious of Karesh right now.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Aldurin flat knew I was Scum last game but didn't lynch me, so there's a bit of a bad track record there. We should all apply logic to this, and not just go off a hunch, or else we get more moon'd ponies.

[Revising Ocelot]

Also, I think the mafia were the nightmarish mare that visited Zacora, then got chased away.

Zacora seems like she was a bulletproof role, but then got killed off because of a second attack, which is exactly how my bulletproof role worked last game.

I'd say that falls in line with Doctor protection, actually. Can block one kill, but not two simultaneously.

[rpgdemon]

In the Everfree forest:

The nightly mare slowly crept towards the unassuming hut. Unfortunately for the mare, the resident of said hut was not nearly as daft as the rest of the easily tricked ponies.

"What sort of creature dares to roam this near to my humble home?" Zecora yelled.

The mare took off in a gallop, plunging deeper into the Everfree forest. The zebra pursued her, yelling in rhyme the entire time while.

Minutes, or perhaps hours, or perhaps some combination of the two later, the mare had managed to elude the zebra.

"I had almost caught that Nightmare... she was practically right there! Now how am I to return to my chamber, when I am this far lost in nature?"

"Nightly Mare", sorry, not "Nightmarish Mare." But I'd think that's where the Mafia's kill went.

[Sifright]

If you vote lynch Karesh I will kill you IRL, just so you know. Any one who suggest vote lynching Karesh with out lynching me first is a complete and utter retarded moronic fool and I will hold no punches with calling people that. Kill me first at the very god damn least before you lynch the person who is immune to bloody mafia night actions.

Based on Rpgdemons last post alone

FOS:RPGDEMON

[rpgdemon]

I'd say that falls in line with Doctor protection, actually. Can block one kill, but not two simultaneously.

If we're allowed to quote what Snake said last game to us, I'll post my role from that here, but it was decidedly one kill would fail, and then I'd no longer be bulletproof.

And our doctor died, is why I'm guessing bulletproof. Unless we have two.

[Sifright]

Also we don't know for sure that our doctor died it's only a presumption a good one prehaps but a presumption none the less.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I don't see any real reason for Zecora to be bulletproof. If we are to assume the parties involved were Nightmare Moon and the Cockatrice, then it seems that they both targeted Zecora and off'd her. No bulletproof, just a coincidental twokill.

[Revising Ocelot]

Yep. Snake was pretty much being the most prominent one here, both sides would have ants in their pants about him.

Speaking of prominence: greed. 86 pages, 2 posts. I know he's on the forums most days so he can't claim he hasn't had the time to post like Ryanderman has.

[rpgdemon]

Also we don't know for sure that our doctor died it's only a presumption a good one prehaps but a presumption none the less.

"The Mayor has spoken for the town!" Celestia exclaimed. Geminex, Applejack, Element of Honesty, (Bodyguard) town-aligned was brought to the stage.

I dunno if it's a presumption. It's pretty explicitly stated right there.

[Aldurin]

Aldurin flat knew I was Scum last game but didn't lynch me, so there's a bit of a bad track record there. We should all apply logic to this, and not just go off a hunch, or else we get more moon'd ponies.

Please don't remind me that my only two mafia games are now complete failures on my part.

[Revising Ocelot]

I dunno if it's a presumption. It's pretty explicitly stated right there.

Bodyguard /=/ Doctor

[Revising Ocelot]

Check (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bodyguard) the wiki (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Doctor), there's differences between the two although their general purpose is the same.

[rpgdemon]

In fact, either you or Karesh, or both, are flashing suspiciously to me. Especially how you're all gung ho to kill a townie now, to prove whether or not another townie may possibly be maybe innocent or maybe scum, but when you were trying to come up with a plan that would prove whether or not you/Karesh were scum, the only plan you wanted to call acceptable was the one where to pin either of you, our PO would have to step forward and kill himself. You were even given the option of the plan where our PO has the chance to save you or not to save you, but when you got lynched it would tell us for sure either way, but you kept refusing that one. I'm gonna toss my vote that way, until proven otherwise.

Vote: Sifright

[rpgdemon]

Check (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bodyguard) the wiki (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Doctor), there's differences between the two although their general purpose is the same.

Ah, that does change things. I thought that they were the same role, since they were pretty much used interchangeably/I figured Doctor was a different name for Bodyguard.

My vote still stands though.

[Sifright]

How exactly am I gung ho to kill a townie?

My Plan was predicated on the PO not revealing him self. IF i was telling the truth.

Basically your misrepresenting what i've said in the past given nikose did that with snake. I'm going to call you out as mafia. Keeping vote on Nikose as I think both Nikose and RPGdemon are mafia.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Please don't remind me that my only two mafia games are now complete failures on my part.

Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.

The only bonus's we have now are that you're more or less confirmed towny. A dumb towny but hey whatever.
With no cult about that's a good thing. Permanent verification is a VERY good thing. When it comes down to the wire having this list of people that are confirmed might be very important.

At the same time there's always the possibility that they'll kill you off, but as you've said you don't have a power anymore and the power you do have wouldn't really work as anything but a time saver anyway.

[Sifright]

Also your running a double standard on logic Claiming that I'm voting to kill a townie to prove the other guy is a townie when your doing exactly the same thing with me and karesh. The difference being that Nikose has been SHOWN to be lieing explicitly and intentionaly.

[Sifright]

FOS:Rpgdemon Double standard on how he is applying his toughts.
FOS:Nikose Lying his ass off in previous posts *voted for*


Edit: also enough with shitting on Aldurin, the point has been made either he will learn from it or not. The important thing is that we actually try to push people on their mistakes instead of going HERP DERP YOU X PERSON I FIND YOU NEBULOUSLY SUSPICIOUS FOR YOU USING REASONING WHICH I WILL NOW APPLY TO YOU WITH MY OWN VOTE CHOICE

[rpgdemon]

Also your running a double standard on logic Claiming that I'm voting to kill a townie to prove the other guy is a townie when your doing exactly the same thing with me and karesh. The difference being that Nikose has been SHOWN to be lieing explicitly and intentionaly.

I don't have a problem with killing someone to prove someone else. In fact, I suggested we do it on you.

I have a problem with you going, "Nooo, bad idea", the first time, and now going, "Yooo, good idea!", the second time.

My Plan was predicated on the PO not revealing him self. IF i was telling the truth.

Exactly, which is how you tied your life to the PO. Like, I don't know if you are bad at logic, but the way you set it up before only benefited the scum. It meant that if the scum would get called out, then the town would have to lose their PO.

If you had said, "PO can save me if he wants, but otherwise assume my guilt", then yes, it might have flagged a false positive on you, but we'd have a known townie in Karesh, and a safe PO. And, if the PO was killed at night, it wouldn't flag you as a false townie, which is much more dangerous than someone being flagged as a false mafiate.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Well Sif was pretty much willing to kill himself earlier, but he now has a problem with it? It does strike me as someone being afraid to go with it when push comes to shove. Maybe the earlier suicide claim was a bluff? Its admittedly an unlikely bluff, but the recent dissent is sorta weird.

[rpgdemon]

Edit: also enough with shitting on Aldurin, the point has been made either he will learn from it or not. The important thing is that we actually try to push people on their mistakes instead of going HERP DERP YOU X PERSON I FIND YOU NEBULOUSLY SUSPICIOUS FOR YOU USING REASONING WHICH I WILL NOW APPLY TO YOU WITH MY OWN VOTE CHOICE

PSST. If I am applying a double standard and being suspicious for it (Which I'm not! It's not supporting killing a townie to prove another one's innocence that I object to, it's that you flipped on that! Which is a big difference!), Then you are too, for being against the old plan, and for this new one. And then you're DOUBLE double standarding, by saying that a double standard only counts in one direction.

ALSO, YOU ARE DOING THE THING THAT YOU SAID NOT TO DO, THAT MEANS.

[Sifright]

Also I DONT WANT TO KILL NIKOSE TO PROVE THAT HE AND IHMN IS TOWNIE. I WANT TO LYNCH HIM BECAUSE HE LIED ABOUT SHIT TO DO WITH SNAKE REPEATEDLY, Like fuck how are you turning this into a thing about me trying to prove he is town.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Exactly, which is how you tied your life to the PO. Like, I don't know if you are bad at logic, but the way you set it up before only benefited the scum. It meant that if the scum would get called out, then the town would have to lose their PO.

If you had said, "PO can save me if he wants, but otherwise assume my guilt", then yes, it might have flagged a false positive on you, but we'd have a known townie in Karesh, and a safe PO. And, if the PO was killed at night, it wouldn't flag you as a false townie, which is much more dangerous than someone being flagged as a false mafiate.

I don't think he ever suggested that the PO investigate him and then immediately dump the results for all to see. Just that the PO could add him to the list of people to get results on and then, at a point where the PO was going to do so anyway he could post his findings and move from there.

That's pretty much the whole fucking point of the PO. He can't sit idle forever, nor can he abandon his life to the first mafiate he finds. A list must be composed through his searches and the validity of that list then tested. If he moves too quickly, the results are likely to be too little to help. Too late and the chances for his death or the scum victory being inevitable become present.

[rpgdemon]

Well Sif was pretty much willing to kill himself earlier, but he now has a problem with it? It does strike me as someone being afraid to go with it when push comes to shove. Maybe the earlier suicide claim was a bluff? Its admittedly an unlikely bluff, but the recent dissent is sorta weird.

He's flip flopped on it a few times.

He was adamant against the plan that could only flag a false mafiate, and demanded that we do the plan that could flag him as a false town, if the PO didn't investigate him, or died, or didn't come out immediately and say that he was scum.

Then he went, "But seriously, now you can kill me guys! It'll prove I'm innocent!".

And now he's doing... This? Whatever this is. I've honestly got no idea, and being involved in the whole This, I can't really give an opinion on it that's worth anything. I mean, I think he's being silly and suspicious.

[Sifright]

We are now in day 3 if I had been lynched day fucking one it would have been one thing but Lynching me on day 3 will fuck the town over hugely.

You aren't seeing that the day the thing happens makes a huge deal. If i'm lynched now mafia kill another one in the night and so to does the sk presumably and the Vig. We go from 15 to 11, That means the mafia can win THE NEXT GAME DAY

[Aldurin]

Vote: Nikose because that seems to be the general direction and recent developments point toward him more.

[Sifright]

Either people sack up and trust me and Karesh. Karesh who role claimed fucking day one at that or it's game for town, I don't presume to know for sure who mafia to be fucking honest I have almost no clue. the thing is game IS almost over. At some point the town needs to start trusting some one or we lose well guess what that point is fucking now

[rpgdemon]

Also I DONT WANT TO KILL NIKOSE TO PROVE THAT HE AND IHMN IS TOWNIE. I WANT TO LYNCH HIM BECAUSE HE LIED ABOUT SHIT TO DO WITH SNAKE REPEATEDLY, Like fuck how are you turning this into a thing about me trying to prove he is town.

I'm just going based off of:

I'm still for voting Nikose because I don't believe him and on the off chance that he is telling the truth about his role it may tell us more about whether IHMN is trust worthy. I don't like the idea of killing a potential towny for that but the stuff nikose was saying about Snake was based on alot of half truths and the one thing townies should never ever do is lie. Lieing as a townie only ever hurts town unless your hiding your own power role.

Of course, then you flip flopped on that statement so many times in the next few pages, and now claim that you never made it?

After making that statement, you then were all, "But you can't get any information out of Nik's death, if he dies! Because he could be lying!". Right after saying that we'll get information out of Nikose's alignment when he dies.

[Sifright]

40% of the remaining players are scum (that includes SK).
We will lose 4 players including today and tonight (game day and night) unless the sk and the mafia kill the same person this night. That makes mafia population 45% of the vote. and the Townies 45% of the vote with the SK controling the final 10%

[rpgdemon]

Either people sack up and trust me and Karesh. Karesh who role claimed fucking day one at that or it's game for town, I don't presume to know for sure who mafia to be fucking honest I have almost no clue. the thing is game IS almost over. At some point the town needs to start trusting some one or we lose well guess what that point is fucking now

That is seriously the worst argument I've heard this thread.

"You need to shut up, stop questioning us, and WE'RE TOTALLY TOWN. If you don't trust us, YOU ALL DIE. No, we still haven't made any proof for this claim, but TRUST US OR DIE."

[Sifright]

I'm just going based off of:



Of course, then you flip flopped on that statement so many times in the next few pages, and now claim that you never made it?

After making that statement, you then were all, "But you can't get any information out of Nik's death, if he dies! Because he could be lying!". Right after saying that we'll get information out of Nikose's alignment when he dies.

I call bullshit, I only claimed you wouldn't get much information out of Nikose death if he was mafia because him calling IHMN Town would then be a way for him to push suspicion on him later.

You know what with how much you are lying about what i'm supposedly typing just like nikose did with snake If your not scum well....


Edit: TO fucking clarify I specifically said if he is town WE DO get information, IF HE ISN'T WE DONT BUT HE LIED HIS ASS OFF, So killing him is fucking logical.

[IHateMakingNames]

That is seriously the worst argument I've heard this thread.

"You need to shut up, stop questioning us, and WE'RE TOTALLY TOWN. If you don't trust us, YOU ALL DIE. No, we still haven't made any proof for this claim, but TRUST US OR DIE."
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/BonBonShrug.png

Unvote: Ryanderman
Vote: rpgdemon

HoS: Ryanderman
HoS: Nikose
HoS: gregness

[rpgdemon]

Vote: Nikose because that seems to be the general direction and recent developments point toward him more.

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/gildamad.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/rarityhead.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/raritycry.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/spikedissapointed.gif
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/tumblr_lq3gyuOKWL1qf1bz5.jpg

Vote: Aldurin
http://www.dreamwidth.org/userpic/836566/572328

Don't go based off of general directions! Go based off of your own thoughts! If you think that he's scum, say so, and say why. Rationally figure it out for yourself, rather than trusting anyone.

Sifright is right that we're at a really high distribution of town and scum. You can't trust anyone (Except, funnily, yourself. And I mean that as in we can trust you since we know you're town by your action). Remember last game, being steered to vote for one person by the general direction was the entirety of the scum piling on that person.

[Sifright]

I'd say lets just all vote for who ever aldurin votes for because at least we know he won't intentionally vote for townies, but does any one trust him to make the correct decision?

[Sifright]

Seriously though it beggars belief that you are doing to me exactly the same shit nikose did to snake.

Edit: Also whilst arguments to emotion are some what foolish in that they don't bring anything to the table every one needs to be aware of the urgency and the importance of this game day. It's seriously a big deal if we as town fuck up today the game is unwinnable.

[rpgdemon]

Not intentionally, at least. I am quoting you wherever possible, and only paraphrasing when I'm frustrated and don't feel like going back and reading through for quotes of things I've already pretty much quoted.

In complete and honest truth, whenever I paraphrase anything that anyone said, it's what I took your statements to mean. If it's not what you meant, then please correct it with quotes, or by saying, "Look, I've made no posts saying what you said here, here's the post I made at the last paraphrase you said I made, here's the next paraphrase you said I made, and there's nothing between them resembling what you think I said."

It's possible that I may be attributing some things that you didn't say to you, that someone else said! My memory isn't perfect, and I'll admit that I may have bias attributing something that someone else said to you, since it makes my logic sound. If I'm doing that, it's not that I'm accusing you, then making things up to back it up, it's that I have an unsound memory of who said what, and am using that to make an accusation.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I'd say lets just all vote for who ever aldurin votes for because at least we know he won't intentionally vote for townies, but does any one trust him to make the correct decision?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubePTrs2VJc

[Sifright]

Haha When I first read Earls post, this is immediately what went to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MLry6Cn_D4

More seriously though rpgdemon, I don't trust you now because of those mistakes it's made you hugely suspicious to me, I don't exactly write very coherent posts i'll be the first to admit but you need to make damn sure of what your saying because with out proof to the contrary I'm almost certain you and nikose are mafia. At this point mafia can afford to stick together to try and force things through because well hey GUESS WHAT They have pretty large cohesive group that can work together.

[rpgdemon]

I am curious where you're getting your numbers though. There are 15 players left. If we lose four in this cycle, there's still 11 left.

That means that if the SK is 10% of the population, he's 1.1 people.

And if the town has 45% of the people, they have 4.95 people, and the scum also have 4.95 people? I'm asking not because I think your math is wrong (I'm just pedantic. I can get that you meant 5 mafia, 5 town, 1 SK), but because we were never told how many scum there were.

Last game, someone called me out on knowing a number that I wasn't supposed to, and was a townie, so I'm not saying that you guessing at the number of scum makes you scum. The thing is though, I got that number from someone else, and assumed that it was a standard in Mafia games. (It was that there were 4 scum). As it turns out, it wasn't? The reason I ask is because the person who dropped the, "There are probably four scum" was scum themselves, if I remember correctly.

I'm just wondering where you got your numbers from. Is it just a guess, a general standard somewhere, or something more nebulous and dastardly?

[Verifiedz]

Don't go based off of general directions! Go based off of your own thoughts! If you think that he's scum, say so, and say why. Rationally figure it out for yourself, rather than trusting anyone.

Sifright is right that we're at a really high distribution of town and scum. You can't trust anyone (Except, funnily, yourself. And I mean that as in we can trust you since we know you're town by your action). Remember last game, being steered to vote for one person by the general direction was the entirety of the scum piling on that person.
Trying to protect ur mafia friend?

[Sifright]

I'm going with 25-33% of initial players are scum which is fairly typical according to the mafia wiki fenris initial plan was for 25 players which is the number i'm working from. I'm being pessimistic as well there could be be only four mafia but I don't believe that to be the case.

[Sifright]

Also it's 2:30am here so my posts are only going to get more rambly but I almost don't want to go to bed.. THe last time i did that well..

[rpgdemon]

More seriously though rpgdemon, I don't trust you now because of those mistakes it's made you hugely suspicious to me, I don't exactly write very coherent posts i'll be the first to admit but you need to make damn sure of what your saying because with out proof to the contrary I'm almost certain you and nikose are mafia. At this point mafia can afford to stick together to try and force things through because well hey GUESS WHAT They have pretty large cohesive group that can work together.

Ah. I don't mean to actually be sticking up for Nik, except by proxy.

I'm saying that people shouldn't trust you and Karesh to be townies, and shouldn't go on what you say. I'm trying to promote a rationalist viewpoint about who we lynch. (HI HARRY POTTER AND THE METHODS OF RATIONALITY, AND YOUR INFLUENCE ON MY BRAIN)

It doesn't matter to me if we do or don't lynch Nikose today, so much as it matters that we do it for the right reasons. I don't mind making a mistake, if we made the proper play/properly went through the decision making process. In poker, whenever I lose, despite doing what I was supposed to do, I'm happy to have lost properly, rather than to have won by doing something that would have been the wrong play. I don't have any opinion saying that Nikose is strongly scum, and I don't have any strong feeling of him being a townie.

My main thing is that I don't want us lynching him because it seems the thing to do. Whenever someone votes for someone else, they ought to have a solid reasoning backing themselves up, and not just do it because everyone else is. And if everyone does that, faulty reasoning ought to be able to be proven wrong, and we should have a much better chance at hitting the right person.

[rpgdemon]

Trying to protect ur mafia friend?

No, I'm trying to protect my brain, which is my logical friend.

I like logic, and the organization of things in a logical manner. If everyone gives their votes and stuff with their logical thought process backing it up, it will help the town find the scum.

[Sifright]

Yes Which is what i've wanted every god damn day. Do you not see all my posts screaming for this?

[Verifiedz]

I'm voting NIKOSE for his lies. he said a lot of fake stuff about snake and now that we know he can lie how do we know he isnt lying about being a townie?

[Sifright]

Also another reason for me to be suspicious of RPGdemon he has been for killing off inactives in the earlier part of the thread all the wikis i've read conclude that this is a bad idea as inactives tend to be town power roles trying not to get lynched or draw attention to the mafia for night actions.

[rpgdemon]

Well, no. The reason that I'm having this problem with you all started back with your proposed plan to figure out if you're town or not, which was set up so that it could only flag a false townie, which is something that helps the scum, and how you didn't see what I meant, no matter how many times I tried to tell you.

Also, the search button is being broken for me right now, but could someone please tell me who it was who I called out on making the gamblers fallacy, in terms of who's scum this game versus last? Since I remember that it was someone who was scum last game, and that's a thing that we have to go on, as well, if they're still around. Ask questions, and such, about that.

[Sifright]

How does flagging a false townie via PO help scum explain that, bareing in mind that the PO will reveal his information at some point or he is completely and utterly frigging useless, tbh I'd go with today being the day to do it because the next day there is a high chance he will be dead.

[Gregness]

*snip*

Unvote: Ryanderman
Vote: rpgdemon

HoS: Ryanderman
HoS: Nikose
HoS: gregness

I know this might be tough given your... restrictions, but that's the second time you've sent a HoS my way and I'm curious why.

One of the chief arguments people have used to convince themselves that IHMN is town is something along the lines of "no one would put themselves through all that on purpose." Think about it though, doesn't that make it the perfect facade? Even if IHMN is telling the truth about derpy, she doesn't have to be town aligned. Derpy seems like a decent enough candidate to be the SK.

Now, the problem with that lies in the flavor text of the night kills. How much can we rely on it for information? This is my first Mafia game, so I don't know how much stock we can usually put in it. Could it be that even IF the flavor text IS technically accurate in that it's a cockatrice making the kills, could the cockatrice be somepony's pet?

I haven't convinced myself of this yet, but I think we should consider these sorts of things so that we can avoid any more screwups like we've had the first two days. Basically, I want to make sure we cover our bases.

HoS: IHMN
HoS: Nikose


HoS on Nikose because he's thrown out half a dozen more flippant contradictions than I'm comfortable with.

[rpgdemon]

Also another reason for me to be suspicious of RPGdemon he has been for killing off inactives in the earlier part of the thread all the wikis i've read conclude that this is a bad idea as inactives tend to be town power roles trying not to get lynched or draw attention to the mafia for night actions.

I actually wasn't. I said that it doesn't actively hurt the town, as they were essentially dead already, and we might hit a scum trying to hide. I also said it was almost the same as a no vote, because it was hitting someone who was essentially dead already, which hurts the town, because a no-vote is the worst thing we could do, as was told to me last game. What I supported was lynching an inactive only if we had nothing else to go off of, day 1, as it was the course of action that would lead to minimal damage if we were wrong.

This is my second game, and I haven't read any wikis on what's a strategy that should be avoided. I was making my statement based on what seemed logically sound, especially since I was saying it about the inactives who hadn't logged in or posted since the game started, and who thus had no idea what their role was. I also said this much, back then.

Since they hadn't logged in or seen their roles since the game started, it was impossible that they'd be townies trying to hide, and instead were just people who aren't playing the game. In that case, killing them would help if we hit scum, and minimize damage if we didn't, but it would equate to a no-vote if we hit a townie. That's why I said that it was a good idea, only if we had no leads.

See how easy it is to mix up what people said, and make a mistake about information? You said yourself, we ought to be completely sure of what we say. I was doing that as best I can, with quotes to back myself up on anything that I said. You haven't quoted me once, and went with a poorly remembered idea of what was going on, attributing what people have said who were around me while I was talking, with what I said.

Someone said either this game or last that it's a tried and true scum tactic to pin ideas of other people on active players, since people will just remember the active player posting a lot when the idea was discussed, and assume it has to be true. I'm not saying that you're doing this, but you really ought to go back and look at what I said again.

[Sifright]

Alduin was culted night 0.

RPG is serial Killer.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

Also Nikose said he claimed that Snake was SK early on. He didn't another lie.

[Sifright]

I actually wasn't. I said that it doesn't actively hurt the town, as they were essentially dead already, and we might hit a scum trying to hide. I also said it was almost the same as a no vote, because it was hitting someone who was essentially dead already, which hurts the town, because a no-vote is the worst thing we could do, as was told to me last game. What I supported was lynching an inactive only if we had nothing else to go off of, day 1, as it was the course of action that would lead to minimal damage if we were wrong.

This is my second game, and I haven't read any wikis on what's a strategy that should be avoided. I was making my statement based on what seemed logically sound, especially since I was saying it about the inactives who hadn't logged in or posted since the game started, and who thus had no idea what their role was. I also said this much, back then.

Since they hadn't logged in or seen their roles since the game started, it was impossible that they'd be townies trying to hide, and instead were just people who aren't playing the game. In that case, killing them would help if we hit scum, and minimize damage if we didn't, but it would equate to a no-vote if we hit a townie. That's why I said that it was a good idea, only if we had no leads.

See how easy it is to mix up what people said, and make a mistake about information? You said yourself, we ought to be completely sure of what we say. I was doing that as best I can, with quotes to back myself up on anything that I said. You haven't quoted me once, and went with a poorly remembered idea of what was going on, attributing what people have said who were around me while I was talking, with what I said.

Someone said either this game or last that it's a tried and true scum tactic to pin ideas of other people on active players, since people will just remember the active player posting a lot when the idea was discussed, and assume it has to be true. I'm not saying that you're doing this, but you really ought to go back and look at what I said again.

You're quite right that I need to be careful of it just like I warned you in my defense you guys are only active at ungodly hours in the morning for me but i'm going to quote your post if i find it again

[Aldurin]

I'd say lets just all vote for who ever aldurin votes for because at least we know he won't intentionally vote for townies, but does any one trust him to make the correct decision?

Designating me the leader of the lynch mob is a stupid idea, and we're all dumber for reading that. My decisions are based on other people's decisions, so you can't just designate me the main force in whatever direction I take.

[Oron]

I spent a little bit of time catching up when I should be studying for my Organic Chemistry exam tomorrow. That is a really bad idea.

Nikose seems to get progressively crazier each day. Now he's claiming to be the PO? I'unno about that. His day one post is hard to go by. Either he's playing to hide his role rather well, surprisingly, or he got a lucky guess in there. Hard to tell and I don't have the time to think about it right now.

I read about two posts per page but I think rpgdemon had some good points for this day so far (given the couple of posts I did spend at least a little time reading).

Not much else to go on for this day so far and I've really got to study. I'll come back to this tomorrow for a bit and actually dedicate some time thinking things over.

[Sifright]

Ok, lets think this through guys Alds definately town, I'm stating my self and Karesh to be TOWN. If the PO has proof that either my self or Karesh and two other townies are TOWN I think it might an idea for him to shout that information out that would give a 6 man voting block bringing us to 40% of the votes and players from there If the mafia have 5 players and an SK thats 40%. which leaves 20% of the players unverified. That leads to us being able to have a 2-1 chance of lynching a mafia player and the vig has an even better time of it later on presuming he isn't one of the ones identifyed by the PO


PO if you can fulfill that condition of confirming my self and two other townies please do it. Nikose is claiming 'wrong PO'

[rpgdemon]

How does flagging a false townie via PO help scum explain that, bareing in mind that the PO will reveal his information at some point or he is completely and utterly frigging useless, tbh I'd go with today being the day to do it because the next day there is a high chance he will be dead.

The main reason that someone being falsely flagged as a townie is bad, as opposed to a townie being falsely flagged as a mafiate, is that the test is to see if you can trust the person, and the information that they gave. If the test can let a mafiate fall under a narrow false positive townie, then it's failed at it's job, since it's no longer reliable.

If a test can only falsely identify someone as scum, then it's not great to rely on, because killing a townie sucks, but it's a sound defense for the person, if they get identified as a town player based on it. It's also a solution that promotes action on the town's part. If the town has nothing else to go on, they can still use the shakey results of this type of test to go off of. In the case of a fake townie by test results, the town doesn't have an action that might make sense out of that test, except sit around and do what we're doing now.

In the case of the test that you proposed, if the PO has to come out and say that you're scum, there's a lot that can go wrong with the test, and continued silence means that we have to continue to trust you. If the PO was nightkilled, we'll never get an answer, and if the PO didn't check you yet (to not get watched), we'll also not have an answer any time soon.

That's why I wanted to do the test the other way. It meant that the PO had his own discretionary decision what he wanted to do, if he wanted to try to save you or not if you were town. But if something went wrong with the test, it wouldn't give you a safe alibi to hide behind, if you were scum. It wouldn't be a test that we'd necessarily jump on as solid proof if you were scum, but it could possibly give us solid proof if you were a townie, if the PO wanted to offer that, and it wouldn't give an ambivalent result of waiting with baited breath to see if proof comes against you.

[Sifright]

Ok, lets think this through guys Alds definately town, I'm stating my self and Karesh to be TOWN. If the PO has proof that either my self or Karesh and two other townies are TOWN I think it might an idea for him to shout that information out that would give a 6 man voting block bringing us to 40% of the votes and players from there If the mafia have 5 players and an SK thats 40%. which leaves 20% of the players unverified. That leads to us being able to have a 2-1 chance of lynching a mafia player and the vig has an even better time of it later on presuming he isn't one of the ones identifyed by the PO


PO if you can fulfill that condition of confirming my self and two other townies please do it. Nikose is claiming 'wrong PO'

Also for the love of fucking god if you do this DONT tell people that they have power roles just go X player name - TOWN

[Revising Ocelot]

Going to sleep, leaving these notes:

I've already got Nikose on FoS, and for the same reason he's still guilty of now: he's acting suspiciously far too obviously. Add the flawed PO claim to that, too. I don't think a Mafia would really want to draw that much attention to himself, so I'm suspecting Jester, and thus a Vigilante kill rather than a lynch. If someone has a better role to peg him as, by all means say so. Not too experienced with such matters having only played half a game (Wiki crawling for great justice).


FoS: rpgdemon. The current spat with Sifright. I'm pretty convinced that Sif (and by extension Karesh) are townies due to my reasons yesterday, and Sif gets flustered easily as shown by the suicide phase and the Homestuck game. You have good points, however.


FoS: greed. Extreme lurking poster. It's worse than Fawful, because Fawful was a one post account wonder while greed is normally far more prolific than what he's displayed in the thread. He's been online lots, too. Typical Mafia tactic is to let people fight amongst themselves while they hang back, I recall from last game. I'm surprised more people aren't paying attention to this. Snake was town and put forward a good case for voting inactives , and this is all kinds of suspicious. Time for a callout?

[Aldurin]

Oh right, my gut instinct was for greed, but logic brought me to bring the guillotine on Geminex. Based entirely on a post search for greed.

FoS: greed

[Bard The 5th LW]

It'd be dumb to rely on the PO to come out and say YEAH THIS GUY'S TOWN or to even imply that they'd do that. The PO is a double sided sword, they know the truth, but it is a risk to say that they do. Chances are that the PO has already posted what they know, but had to mask it as an opinion so as to not make a target of themselves. Thus, for the PO to reveal themself in any way might certainly verify you as town or verify someoen else as scum, it would also be like putting a "KILL ME" sign on their forehead.

[Sifright]

I'm massively aware of this fact, my idea is predicated on him being able to create a cohesive voting block only if he can't do that obviously he shouldn't reveal anything.

[Sifright]

So, people who haven't posted, why have you not posted? There are a fair number of you, from my rough remembering things.

Before lynching someone who is giving information to us, even if it's an attempt to be misleading, why aren't we taking out people who aren't really interested in the game (And thus won't be too torn up over being the first lynch), and aren't giving us ANYTHING to work on? They're not even helping voting swing in our favor, they're just filling space. The only downside to falsely taking one of them out is that we miss a kill on scum.

Killing inactives isn't all positives, it's just low negatives. There's a difference.

It doesn't gives us progress, it just keeps us from killing someone who would be good for the town to have around. And we burn a lynch.


Justification of killing inactives.

Edit: Note Smb was in favour of this tactic and he was scum

[rpgdemon]

If Nikose is the PO, we're kind of boned, since he was getting bad results. An inaccurate PO is literally the same as no PO at all, except maybe even worse since you think you know some scum and they're wrong. But if we have an inaccurate PO, it means that we're just as well off tossing a coin to decide if someone's scum or not. Unless there's like a 90% chance of accuracy, and he hit the 10% chance of inaccuracy, in which case it's a better lead than we have, but only on accusations of scummishness, since false town labels are the enemy.

Granted, this is all moot, since we have no idea if Nik is the PO, and if he is, what the odds are of him getting it wrong would be.

Statistically though, we can increase our odds of random guessing hitting a scum, in a day or two. Pick someone right now, at complete random. Don't vote for them, just pick them. If we lose town players today/tonight, switch your pick to anyone else, at complete random again. If we lose scum players tonight, or the ratio of scum to town doesn't increase, keep your pick the same as it was before.

The way it works is, right now we have around a 5-6/14 chance of hitting scum. But if we lose 3 townies, we'll have a 5-6/11 chance of hitting scum tomorrow. It means that switching your vote will give you better odds, as your new vote has better odds than your previous one.

To show an extreme example, if you have 50 boxes, and one of them has a million dollars in it, you have a 1/50 chance of picking the right box when you start. If they get rid of 48 of the boxes after you pick, you now have one box which has a 1/50 chance of having a million dollars, and one box that has a 1/2 chance of having a million dollars.

It's only good for complete random guessing though, so if we have leads tomorrow, we should follow them. But if we can get a random number generator that will fairly generate a number, that can be verified to everyone, we ought to use that to make a guess today, so that we can use that guess tomorrow and generate another random number then.


Does anyone know of a die roller, or a random number generator that would work for this? It has to show a complete log of all numbers rolled, so that no one can tamper with it, and everyone can independently verify the number that we rolled.

The only reason making a pick now will increase our odds tomorrow is that if we don't count the pick we make today in the potentials tomorrow, we have slightly increased odds, I believe. There's about a 1/3 chance that we'll have a safe mafiate tomorrow, but there's a 2/3 chance that we'll have a safe town player tomorrow.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I'd say that the PO would be less inclined to act right now because of you asking for his assistance. Now poeple are going to expecting him to come on out and help out, even if he doesn't claim PO. There aren't that many of us. And the scum know who they are, so it'd be easy for them to decipher who the PO is.

FOS: Sif for seemingly attempting to draw out the PO

Anyways, can you get the quote where Smarty uses similar tactics? As said before, attributing quotes to other peopel is a common scum tactic.

[rpgdemon]

Justification of killing inactives.

Edit: Note Smb was in favour of this tactic and he was scum

That's the same thing I just said though, above. In fact, my second quote is almost literally what I said above, and taken extremely out of context.

Someone said that killing inactives was all positives. I responded with, "Killing inactives isn't all positives, it's just low negatives. There's a difference.

It doesn't gives us progress, it just keeps us from killing someone who would be good for the town to have around. And we burn a lynch."

That "And we burn a lynch" was, if I remember correctly, referring to what I said earlier about killing an inactive townie being a bad thing because it's the same as a no-vote.

[rpgdemon]

So, back on the topic of who to lynch. What ever happened to killing off the inactives? I mean, we agreed pretty early on that inactives are detrimental to the Town regardless of whether they're scum or not. So why are we wasting time trying to figure out who MIGHT be scum when we can get almost all positives from booting an inactive out?

In fact, here's the post I was responding to, two posts up. It wasn't a post defending the idea to kill inactives, but responding to Gregness's post, where he asked why we wouldn't.


Edit: You can see the post that I'm quoting by clicking the blue arrow next to the name, if anyone doesn't know that.

[rpgdemon]

What?
Firstly we don't "burn a lynch", we use a lynch when no other targets are present. If we don't lynch anyone that is burning a lynch and that is about the worst thing the town can do. And we don't have unlimited time to make a decision so if no other target presents itself an inactive is a good one to go.
Why? Because a high proportion of inactives massively favour scum- they know who each other are, they can coordinate durin gthe day and don't even really nered lynches that much.
By keeping inactives you cut off the flow of information to the town by stopping discussion, you make it more likely that you are going to need to rely on scum to get lynches over the threshold and you make it easier for scum to float to the end by not getting involved in fights.

And then literally the next post, Smarty is arguing against my reasoning that killing an inactive is like a no-vote, if we hit a townie, and saying how I'm wrong and we ought to kill an inactive.

It feels almost like you're intentionally trying to mislead people.

Immediately after Smarty posted:

What I meant is that voting an inactive isn't a first choice, but rather a way of minimizing damage/maybe getting a benefit if you don't know who to lynch.

It's burning a day because we're not killing anyone that will accomplish anything, versus voting a definitely scummy person. I was explaining why we're not all jumping on the vote fawful train.

Again, an argument against killing an inactive, unless we have nothing else to go on.

Click on the source of any of these quotes, and read the entire line of conversation, whenever someone quotes something, or else they might be taking something out of context. If they're manually typing in the quote tags, and there's no blue arrow, ask them for the source.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I'm inclined to be on RPG's side in this. Something about Sif seems off to me. Still, won't make my vote until tomorrow, so he has time to change my mind if her can. Gotta go to bed for now.

[Ryanderman]

Also Nikose said he claimed that Snake was SK early on. He didn't another lie.

Didn't he claim he said Snake was SK on day 2? Which he did. A lot. He lied and misrepresented what snake said a lot to try to convince us Snake was the SK.

[greed]

I've been busy, I've only been able to duck onto the PC for relatively short bursts, not long enough to catch up usually, I was gonna post before last night but then well.....

Got up today and all of this happened before I even got online (remember I'm like 12 hours off Americans).


I've got one point to make from a while back to whoever was calling for the Vig (ie Rainbow Dash). The day one text said that Smarty was trying to induct whoever that was. It's possible the vig is anti-town now, so relying on them to act in our best interests is probably not a great idea, it's probably better to treat them as a second SK.

[greed]

The fact that he targeted Fawful despite the general agreement that offing inactives is bad for the town probably does not bode well.

[Sifright]

I've been busy, I've only been able to duck onto the PC for relatively short bursts, not long enough to catch up usually, I was gonna post before last night but then well.....

Got up today and all of this happened before I even got online (remember I'm like 12 hours off Americans).


I've got one point to make from a while back to whoever was calling for the Vig (ie Rainbow Dash). The day one text said that Smarty was trying to induct whoever that was. It's possible the vig is anti-town now, so relying on them to act in our best interests is probably not a great idea, it's probably better to treat them as a second SK.

NO.

I actually got all the role PMs in on time!

Verifiedz has replaced Moogle.

-------------------

Rainbow Dash didn't like this. Rainbow Dash didn't like this one bit. As she flew over the night sky of Ponyville, a roaring laugh from one of the homes caught her ears.

"The Great and Powerful Trixie will not be laughed out of Ponyville this time!" the magical mare chortled to two diminutive colts.

"Yeah! The G. 'n P. T. is great! And, uh, powerful," the taller colt said.

"Snails!" the shortest pony cried, "Stop wasting time! We need to go find Rainbow Dash and bring her to Trixie!"

Far above, Rainbow Dash decided to get a little closer. She descended towards the house, in time to hear Snails reply, "Okay, okay! Just let me lock up, and-"

His sentence was interrupted however, by said cyan pegasus mare crashing through his window at an absurdly high velocity, scattering the belongings of the abode everywhere.

Rainbow Dash bolted from the building before the dust could settle, chastising herself the whole time for her lack of subtlety. "Stupid! Now I'll never figure out what's going on with Snips and Snails! And was that Trixie...?"

Coughing, Snips, Snails, and Trixie sputtered around. Trixie had no idea what had transpired, and neither Snips nor Snails clearly did, either.

"My mom is gonna kill me, eh? I better clean this mess up..." Snails said, dejectedly.

"Well! Snips and I shall head out into Ponyville proper and find Rainbow Dash ourselves!" Trixie commanded. "Let's go!"

"Your wish is my command," Snails replied, bowing.

"Just follow me, and don't speak!" Trixie said as she cantered out of the devestated Haus de Snails.

The duo began to head into the town, when a flash of movement caught Snips's eye by the forest. He quickly trotted towards the edge of the town to investigate. After all, it could have been Rainbow Dash!

Unfortunately for Snips, he was incredibly mistaken. The cockatrice he had disturbed had used its petrifying glare on him, and began turning him to stone. "Trixie! Hel-!" he cried, but it was too late. A Snips statuette was in place by the edge of the forest.

Trixie began to panic and fled the scene. A short while later, she ran into a stately mare.

"Are you lost?" the mare asked.

"No, but my fr-acquaintance Snips has been turned to stone by a cockatrice! Is there anything you can do to help The Great and Powerful Trixie?"

"I cannot do anything, but there is a zebra who lives in the forest who may be able to help your acquaintance. If you'll allow me to escort you, then we might be able to cure the colt."

Trixie never returned to Ponyville. She probably didn't even make it to the zebra.

------------------

You wake up this morning to find that Snips: P-Sleazy, Snails: Bob Dole, and The Great and Powerful Trixie: Smarty McBarrelpants are missing!

It is now Day 2. 18 remaining. 10 to "lynch." Deadline sometime!

Edit:
FOS:Greed

[Aldurin]

I lied, I actually DO have 1 vote override left.

Lynch Override: greed

I should have gone with my gut instinct and offed you the first time. You have until Fenris shows up to prove you're not scum.

[Sifright]

Well, Aldurin is clearly playing the in for a penny in for million pounds

[IHateMakingNames]

I lied, I actually DO have 1 vote override left.

Lynch Override: greed

I should have gone with my gut instinct and offed you the first time. You have until Fenris shows up to prove you're not scum.

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/131611626603.gif

[Bard The 5th LW]

Earl please fort the love of all that is holy.

[Sifright]

I can't put my finger exactly on why but I can't help but feel Bard is a mafioso.

[greed]

"Snails!" the shortest pony cried, "Stop wasting time! We need to go find Rainbow Dash and bring her to Trixie!""

I know there's nothing after this to suggest it, but if the cult had managed to get to Dash, Fenris wouldn't have mentioned it in the night text anyway. Cause that would be giving away too much info about a player that isn't dead yet. So yeah that's my rationale.


Also again Earl?
If I'm scummy as you think, convince people, remember what happened last time you listened to your gut, we got a dead doctor. What does it hurt to let it run to a proper lynch? Listen to IHMN.

[Sifright]

I know there's nothing after this to suggest it, but if the cult had managed to get to Dash, Fenris wouldn't have mentioned it in the night text anyway. Cause that would be giving away too much info about a player that isn't dead yet. So yeah that's my rationale.


Also again Earl?
If I'm scummy as you think, convince people, remember what happened last time you listened to your gut, we got a dead doctor. What does it hurt to let it run to a proper lynch? Listen to IHMN.

Wrong we lost the body guard, The doctor may still be alive Although I think Zacora is the most likely doctor candidate it doesn't stop one of the other elements of harmony ponies from potentially being doctor. The core six are Pinkie pie, Apple Jack, Rarity, Rainbow Dash, Flutter Shy and Twilight Sparkle, There is also likely to be a player as Spike and I could see him being a power role.

Edit: added the word potentially in bold.

[Sifright]

as it stands at the moment the people I think are Mafia.

Nikose, RPGdemon, Bard, Greed.

[greed]

Body guard then, my point remains that Earl offed a town power role last time. Like I said I duck in here for like 30 minutes or so and do other stuff. I forget things and post quickly. It doesn't change the main points of the post

- dead townie
- with a power role
- vig might be cult

[Sifright]

Cult dies with the Cult leader in every single Mafia game i've read through

[greed]

Really? I've seen a few where they limp along. It's tough, especially if the survivor/s is/are vanilla but it does happen.

[Fenris]

I lied, I actually DO have 1 vote override left.

No, you don't.

[Sifright]

Hahahaha, I don't know whether to be relieved or disappointed.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Al, I told you not to do that again. Why would you do that again? So far town hasn't had the chance to make a decent lynch of its own and you keep wanting to override us. What ARE you playing at??!

Still, at least we know you're powerless now, though your irrational nature and apparant poor judgement lead me to believe I should no more trust anything you say than anyone else in this game, despite your confirmed town status.

On that note however, yes, I agree greed is shifty looking. Far too much inactivity for my liking, alongside Ryanderman. Greed also turned up just a few hours after somebody else started getting suspicious of him, and judging by the way inactives have been falling out of this game he might be getting worried he's next.

I'm also still suspicious of Sifright. Twice now he's called out the PO to confirm his town status and I've had an off feeling about him since that whole confirmation thing with Karesh. He could easily have been scum trying to lure out a clear townie in Fluttershy, with the hope that Fluttershy would be a power role to kill off. This of course was immediately negated by the fact that Karesh claims Fluttershy is bulletproof, which would make the mafia think twice about attempting a kill.

And from what I'm gathering from last night, it appears both the mafia and SK tried to kill Zecora, with one overiding the other, which would seem to indicate that Fenris IS giving us fluff info about failed kills. So the mafia wouldn't bother to test Kareshs claim if they suspected he's bulletproof, because it would only confirm that he's town for the rest of us in the fluff. Besides which there's plenty of other targets to go after and they could pretty much ignore the unkillables if they wanted.

Then there's Sifs finger pointing about Fawful, which, as indicated, involves a lot of players, including some confirmed town (even "his" confirmed town Karesh was mentioned as being wary of Fawful). But as we know, Fawful was taken down by the vig, so I don't know why this finger pointing is even going on, unless he's pointing fingers at people he thinks is the vig, which is pure scum. You do NOT point fingers at the vig, ever.

All this leads me to beleive that Sif is trying to lure out power roles so the mafia can kill them, and for that reason

Vote: Sifright

[Sifright]

Al, I told you not to do that again. Why would you do that again? So far town hasn't had the chance to make a decent lynch of its own and you keep wanting to override us. What ARE you playing at??!

Still, at least we know you're powerless now, though your irrational nature and apparant poor judgement lead me to believe I should no more trust anything you say than anyone else in this game, despite your confirmed town status.

On that note however, yes, I agree greed is shifty looking. Far too much inactivity for my liking, alongside Ryanderman. Greed also turned up just a few hours after somebody else started getting suspicious of him, and judging by the way inactives have been falling out of this game he might be getting worried he's next.

I'm also still suspicious of Sifright. Twice now he's called out the PO to confirm his town status and I've had an off feeling about him since that whole confirmation thing with Karesh. He could easily have been scum trying to lure out a clear townie in Fluttershy, with the hope that Fluttershy would be a power role to kill off. This of course was immediately negated by the fact that Karesh claims Fluttershy is bulletproof, which would make the mafia think twice about attempting a kill.

And from what I'm gathering from last night, it appears both the mafia and SK tried to kill Zecora, with one overiding the other, which would seem to indicate that Fenris IS giving us fluff info about failed kills. So the mafia wouldn't bother to test Kareshs claim if they suspected he's bulletproof, because it would only confirm that he's town for the rest of us in the fluff. Besides which there's plenty of other targets to go after and they could pretty much ignore the unkillables if they wanted.

Then there's Sifs finger pointing about Fawful, which, as indicated, involves a lot of players, including some confirmed town (even "his" confirmed town Karesh was mentioned as being wary of Fawful). But as we know, Fawful was taken down by the vig, so I don't know why this finger pointing is even going on, unless he's pointing fingers at people he thinks is the vig, which is pure scum. You do NOT point fingers at the vig, ever.

All this leads me to beleive that Sif is trying to lure out power roles so the mafia can kill them, and for that reason

Vote: Sifright


I'm going to ignore this post for now and will write up a concise rebuttal later but I'd like to show every one a plan I have for really hammering the Mafia, if the PO has certain information.

Right if the PO has knowledge of two Mafiates, He SHOULD come out and tell us role claim it. I still believe we have a town Doctor in the game because Zacora isn't part of the elements of harmony six. IF some one then counter claims being PO we lynch NEITHER of the people claiming PO we lynch one of the guys either of the PO's is claiming is mafia. If we kill a townie the Vig kills the other false PO if not the VIG kills the other mafia.

Assuming mafia Falsely counter claim this gives us THREE people who are mafia for sure *predicated on the PO knowing of two mafia* The SK is also likely to target mafia as we are starting to run low on townies. The town doctor is capable of protecting the true PO during the night.

[Sifright]

So to put that information more concisely.

IF PO = knowledge of two mafiattes, revealing information leads to Lynch of mafiate and one mafia down Vig then kills other mafiate during the night. Doctor either keeps PO alive.

If PO does this and another player Claims PO and tries to call bullshit the vig murders the false one during the night if we lynch incorrectly and the doctor keeps real the PO alive during the night.

[Sifright]

It's a risky gambit but guys BUT, no one did any role claiming in the previous game no one revealed any important information look at what it led to

[rpgdemon]

I'm going to ignore this post for now and will write up a concise rebuttal later but I'd like to show every one a plan I have for really hammering the Mafia, if the PO has certain information.

Right if the PO has knowledge of two Mafiates, He SHOULD come out and tell us role claim it. I still believe we have a town Doctor in the game because Zacora isn't part of the elements of harmony six. IF some one then counter claims being PO we lynch NEITHER of the people claiming PO we lynch one of the guys either of the PO's is claiming is mafia. If we kill a townie the Vig kills the other false PO if not the VIG kills the other mafia.

Assuming mafia Falsely counter claim this gives us THREE people who are mafia for sure *predicated on the PO knowing of two mafia* The SK is also likely to target mafia as we are starting to run low on townies. The town doctor is capable of protecting the true PO during the night.

This is coming immediately off of, "We're so near 50/50, any town death means that we're going to lose soon, so we can't kill me to prove or disprove Karesh's town status".

You're still flipflopping about all of these kill someone to verify someone else plans. It seems the only time you have any definite qualms is when it would be killing you, trying to verify Karesh.

[Sifright]

Well fine if you really want to push this along to the final day where it will be mislynch and lose well fine lets do it because I can't be fucked with this any more. :)

Unvote: Whoever

Vote: Sifright


Town can go bugger it's self now Doctor whooves is bowing out.

[rpgdemon]

Our votes actually don't matter right now, since Aldurin is overriding again.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

He's not, Fenris said he can't do it again.

[rpgdemon]

He's not, Fenris said he can't do it again.

Ah, phew. I missed that.

[Revising Ocelot]

Well fine if you really want to push this along to the final day where it will be mislynch and lose well fine lets do it because I can't be fucked with this any more. :)

Unvote: Whoever

Vote: Sifright


Town can go bugger it's self now Doctor whooves is bowing out.

Oh for fucks sake why are you doing this again.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

You're still flipflopping about all of these kill someone to verify someone else plans. It seems the only time you have any definite qualms is when it would be killing you, trying to verify Karesh.

Actually Sif was pretty doggedly suicidally committed to getting offed to prove my innocence earlier.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Oh for fucks sake why are you doing this again.

Probably because it's been a pretty uphill battle for him to try and convince everyone to trust us when really all the pair of us need is for enough of the town to trust us enough not to lynch us.

Of the list, here's what I think in broadest terms:

Town
1. Karesh
2. Sifright
3. Verifiedz
4. Earl
5. Gregness
6. Hawk
7.. Revolving Ocelot
8. IHateMakingNames


Everyone else in my mind is potentially scum.
The fog of war and the shroud of time may yet conspire to see the Town victorious.

[Revising Ocelot]

And I probably phased it badly as it spiralled off into another discussion about whether to vote inactives or not. I didn't mean to say that greed's inactive, because he hasn't been. He's been lurking. And his post explaining why he couldn't post is fraudalent, because despite the 12 hour difference there's still been plenty of time when he's been online at the same time as some of us Europeans. Really, physically online.

So yeah. Regardless of what weird derail shit Earl's flailing about with right now:

Vote: greed.

[rpgdemon]

Actually Sif was pretty doggedly suicidally committed to getting offed to prove my innocence earlier.

Yes, he was, between being doggedly against it, and then being doggedly against it again. That's the flip flopping that I'm referring to.

[Sifright]

Yes, he was, between being doggedly against it, and then being doggedly against it again. That's the flip flopping that I'm referring to.

Bullshit, I wanted to be killed EARLY ON when my death gave us 100% proof of an unkillable night roler. Killing me now is fucking stupid, but i don't give a shit now. Your logic is so flawed it's unreal. Blatent Mafia.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Yes, he was, between being doggedly against it, and then being doggedly against it again. That's the flip flopping that I'm referring to.

Cursory glance really isn't showing that. Can you cite a post showing what you mean?
Unless you're referencing the change in posture between days. Because there's quite clearly been a distinct change within the situation and I think his new attitude is reflective of that. The last day we had townies for days and were statistically likely to lynch a townie anyway. Now we're more down to the wire.

Honestly, HoS: RPGdemon. Persistence is one thing but you're pretty dedicated to what I know is a dead-end for the town here.

[Sifright]

When I am dead, These are the people that need to be killed. RPGDEMON, GREED, NIKOSE beyond that i've no idea

So yea once you've all finished fucking up and killed a townie kill those off please.

[Oron]

I think the "kill Sifright to see if we can trust Karesh" deal is getting a little out of hand. Yes, he's been pretty committed to getting killed to prove his claims trustworthy. I don't remember him explicitly saying, "Don't kill me."

But I'm still getting tired of this charade. We need to focus on lynching the right people, especially now that Mafia is, what, a third of the population?

[Sifright]

Cursory glance really isn't showing that. Can you cite a post showing what you mean?
Unless you're referencing the change in posture between days. Because there's quite clearly been a distinct change within the situation and I think his new attitude is reflective of that. The last day we had townies for days and were statistically likely to lynch a townie anyway. Now we're more down to the wire.

Honestly, HoS: RPGdemon. Persistence is one thing but you're pretty dedicated to what I know is a dead-end for the town here.


This, the situation is vastly different. Killing with the only goal of proving ONE PLAYER to be TOWN is not going to help town. If it had happened day one we would have gained a huge advantage because hey guess what day 1 always has a townie lynched day 1.

Doing it at this point in the game is asking to lose because of the very quickly declining population of town. It's also why I thought Snake was a scummy player because wanting to kill me on day 4 which is likely to be one of the last days of play is a terrible terrible idea.

For every one else did you not notice that with the conditions in the premise of my plans lead to us getting 3-4 players worth of information out of it.

[Revising Ocelot]

Killing with the only goal of proving ONE PLAYER to be TOWN is not going to help town.

So stop voting yourself! :crossarms:

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So stop voting yourself! :crossarms:

This.
Also cupcakes.

[Sifright]

Unvote:myself

Edit: basically i've given up on town being able to win, but i'm not going to actively sabotage it by making it easier for them to kill me at this point.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Most likely candidate in my mind is RPG at this point. He's either a mafioso or a very vindicative townie.

[Ryanderman]

Defeatism aside, as that isn't helpful at all, is not lynching Nikose and leaving him to a vig kill really a thing we're doing? I have doubts as to the wisom of that, but if it's the general consensus, I'm ok with it personally, as it means I don't have to make up my mind whether to believe his role claim and I can go ahead and

Vote: rpgdemon

for over pushing a Sifright lynch, and acting generally scummy. The thing is, I can't see Sifright and Karesh being scum. The logic of it doesn't work out for me.

I don't think Fluttershy is scum. It wouldn't fit at all. So if Karesh is scum, he can't be Fluttershy. And if he's not Fluttershy, then roleclaiming such on the first day was a ridiculous gamble on his and Sifright's parts, as it would have given the real Fluttershy a great incentive to counterclaim, even if it meant sacrificing his life, to get two confirmed scum. I'm not sure I can think of a role that wouldn't be worth sacrificing to confirm two scum on day 1. Though I could be wrong on that. I just can't see scum pulling that maneuver, day 1 especially.

So given the highly unlikely nature of Sifright and Karesh being scum, rpgdemon's insistance on such strikes me as very very suspicious.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Vote: rpgdemon

for over pushing a Sifright lynch, and acting generally scummy. The thing is, I can't see Sifright and Karesh being scum. The logic of it doesn't work out for me.rpgdemon's insistance on such strikes me as very very suspicious.

I'm waiting for a further response from him before voting, but something else I want to point out: Now that we've started coming around to RPG suspicion all of a sudden he's gone quiet.

Could be he's away from the game for the time being, but the timing is incredibly suspicious.

[rpgdemon]

Also there is a way to keep the investigator safe presumably he will check me to see if i'm town thus proving Kareshs claim. IF he then doesn't say anything at all the next day presumably I am town, this way I get proven and the investigator is safe, that way if i'm lieing he can reveal me by telling every one giving an obvious lynch kill the next day.

Start reading the thread from here. He has this plan, that'll keep him alive. But it's ambiguous in the outcome. But okay.

Like i'm expendable and there are more townies than mafia if I have to die to straight off expose a mafia player thats pretty much awesome as i've done what my role was meant to do

Ah, then that helps! If he dies, then we'll have a confirmation, one way or the other!

my proposed plan doesn't allow the mafia to find out who the investigator is ASSUMING i am town. Which means if i am a townie it's the best way for me to operate.

Unvote: Nikose

Vote: Hawk

Basically you are misrepresenting all my ideas to try show them as if they would be a terrible thing for town to do despite the fact that if i'm town it's at the very least a safe way to operate and if i was scum it would be a stupid thing to do because it would get me killed the very next day. do bare mind a guard roll could keep the investigator dude alive the night he 'reveals' me to be mafia if i was actually mafia.

This totally isn't true it's only tied his life to mine if he finds out i'm lieing.


Then he refuses to budge from a plan that keeps him alive the longest, and he's tying himself to the Investigator's life. In the same day, like ten posts down. Either he's bad at logic, since his plan had many holes pointed out in it, or he's trying to keep himself alive by any mean necessary. The defense:

Thats ridiculous I've set it up in a way which allows for silence to provide information and keep his role safe. As I know for a fact i'm townie what it means is that for me to be lynched the next day a mafia player HAS to lie to try and get me killed which means BAM instant mafia player lynched the day after.

"I know I'm town, so it makes sense that I do the plan that gives ambiguous results to the people who need proof, because it means that I stay alive. If I'm lying, well, sorry, you need to kill your PO to find out."

It was explained why his plan wouldn't give any conclusions, and how it would ONLY help scum, because it meant that scum could hide as a townie if anything went wrong. He still refuses to budge, says his plan's the best and keeps trying to stay alive and ambiguous as long as he can.

It's not just me, Snake pointed out many of the same flaws with his plan.

There's a lot of reasons to dislike Sifright's plan that IHMN has not accounted for. (

The 'doctor' or 'protective' role could be lynched D1.
The 'investigator' could be lynched D1.
The 'doctor' or 'protective' role could die N1.
The 'investigator' could die N1.
The 'doctor' or protective' role could be lynched D2.
Mafia could simply target Sifright to be killed N1, effectively guaranteeing that Town wastes an investigation, all the while encouraging us to investigate Sifright, knowing that Sifright would be killed.
Mafia could have a 'watcher' role (they do exist), either one-time or permanently. Mafia 'watches' Sifright and can view anyone who visits him. Presto! The Mafia knows who the Investigator is.
Either the Doctor or the Investigator could be kidnapped or killed in a manner that leaves no trace (Mafia has this role sometimes, too! They did in my game!) Then Scum can claim the Investigator (if he's kidnapped.) Or Scum can pretend the Doctor's still out there, knowing that he isn't and can't save anyone.
Sifright could be a 'Godfather,' in which case as Scum he'd scan innocent even if he is not innocent. Every 'investigator' has limits to his power(s). Actually, it'd be to Sifright's advantage as scum Godfather to make the investigator waste a scan 'confirming' him.
Sifright could be SK or Cult; in some games, SKs or Cult members scan innocent by Cops.

...Really there are so many ways this could backfire.
General Rule: As investigator you NEVER LET YOURSELF BE TOLD WHO TO INVESTIGATE. You trust no one, do your own research, and don't reveal your role and your findings until you have to.

HOS: IHMN for being stupid.


He now, for the first time, outright says that he thinks it's a bad idea for him to die, for the town to get some really solid proof that would be helpful.

I am not flip flopping about how expendable I am but Killing me to prove kareshs claim doesn't make much sense and helps the scum. This is a way to prove my claim that doesn't hurt the town team and secures kareshs claim as well.

This is the first point of flipflopping. He said he was expendable before, and that his death would be proof. Now when push comes to shove, he's backing away from that option, despite a town win counting as a win when you're dead, if you were town. He seems to have said it back when it would deflect suspicion that you could kill him, but now that it's actually considered, "No it's a terrible idea! It's scummy to suggest killing me to verify Karesh!"

So, then there's distraction in the form of an IHMN killing train, then he's all, "I can only post in gifs!", then we're all, "Oh, I guess then you can stay." Then Bookworm looks at PMs, and gets killed.

So, the next day, before anyone votes yet, and people are just discussing and throwing out ideas:

Ok I'm presuming i'm going to get lynched I think nikose and by extension the mafia are going to work to have my lynched today to ensure that a town voter base doesn't grow around me and Karesh.

My feverent request is that after i'm shown to be town you guys lynch the fuck out of Nikose, who wants to kill me just because

That's a good way to ensure that no one votes against you, since, "Anyone who votes me is voting to help scum, and is scum!"

Well never mind, I wanted to form a voting power base with myself and Karesh but fuck it. I've decided it's best the town gets a trusted source that they can use to vote safely with.

Unvote: nikose

Vote: Sifright

Suiciding all up in this mother.

If i'm mafia this would be retarded tactic this only benefits me if i'm town as long as town win it doesn't matter if i die. The only real reason i have not to be killed is for the selfish purpose of continuing to play but i'm willing to sacrifice my self to help the town

like seriously if you guys doubt me in the slightest fucking murder my ass to prove karesh is the fluttershy because it's clear to me we aren't going to create a voting base that is at least less likely to be tainted with out doing so if people won't trust me

Then he goes, "NO, I'LL SUICIDE! LOOK, SEE, I'M VOTING MYSELF, IT MEANS I'M TOWN. CALL MY BLUFF GUYS, DO IT! IT'LL PROVE I'M TOWN!", and because of that, people didn't vote for him. They all went, "Look, don't do that! We're not voting you, that's just dumb! You're a townie!"

Then I call him out on very sketchy behavior recently, outright lying about things that I said with intent to mislead. The post he quoted to say, "Look at how RPG wanted to kill inactives!" was actually me directly responding saying that we shouldn't kill inactives unless we had no better plan, sandwiched between two people who wanted to kill inactives who were arguing against me.

Then he goes, "FINE I HATE YOU, SUICIDING AGAIN, I GIVE UP! AND THE TOWN IS GOING DOWN NOW. BECAUSE I'M TOWN."

Then he goes, "But wait, jk. I'm totally town and gonna help town by not suiciding. Since I'm town!"

http://i.imgur.com/Yykej.jpg

As I'm reading through the thread, Sifright goes back and forth between being "I am super knowledge base I know all!", and, "I have no idea, I never read the rules or anything, and I'm confused!", multiple times. It all adds up to being really suspicious in my book.

[rpgdemon]

I'm waiting for a further response from him before voting, but something else I want to point out: Now that we've started coming around to RPG suspicion all of a sudden he's gone quiet.

Could be he's away from the game for the time being, but the timing is incredibly suspicious.

I've always gone quiet in waves, and I literally posted like a page ago, so don't start the, "NOW THEY'VE RESPONDED, PROVING THEIR GUILT." thing. I was spending my time looking for citations on every statement I made in the above post.

[rpgdemon]

I'm waiting for a further response from him before voting, but something else I want to point out: Now that we've started coming around to RPG suspicion all of a sudden he's gone quiet.

Could be he's away from the game for the time being, but the timing is incredibly suspicious.

Your post: Today, 12:58 PM

My post: Today, 11:15 AM


That was like an hour and 43 minutes after I posted last. Seriously?

[Sifright]

Lost in all this Nikose lying like a pro.

[Sifright]

Your post: Today, 12:58 PM

My post: Today, 11:15 AM


That was like an hour and 43 minutes after I posted last. Seriously?

I must be mafia true FAXX

[rpgdemon]

Also, I am officially checking out for the next few hours, starting soonish. I need to shower, go to class, and write a ten page paper.

I may be popping in and out, but no more huge cited posts like the above, for the near future.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Your post: Today, 12:58 PM

My post: Today, 11:15 AM


That was like an hour and 43 minutes after I posted last. Seriously?

Oor I posted like five minutes after you.
At 11:20 AM.


Rather than quoting that huge post I'll just give my impression of it: I think what you're doing is cutting out the fucking swathes of debating and arguing against his plan that interceded "PO investigate me" to "Then kill me"

It's not flip-flopping. Snake told him straight up why the initial plan was bad and he changed ideas to "Well if we're likely to kill a townie anyway we may as well have it be a vanilla like me and confirm Karesh at the same time."

Vote: rpgdemon.

I remain thoroughly unconvinced.

[rpgdemon]

I must be mafia true FAXX

That was directed at Karesh, since he was saying that it was suspicious that I hadn't posted in a forum in less than two hours. I was showing the post times of his post, and my last post.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

That was directed at Karesh, since he was saying that it was suspicious that I hadn't posted in a forum in less than two hours. I was showing the post times of his post, and my last post.

It is suspicious though. You went from rapid fire conversational posts to absolutely nothing almost as soon as some contention went up.

Whether you had outside reasons or not, whether you don't believe that not posting for an hour and a bit is suspicious to me it is and I'm going to express that so it makes more sense when I vote for you.

[rpgdemon]

It's not flip-flopping. Snake told him straight up why the initial plan was bad and he changed ideas to "Well if we're likely to kill a townie anyway we may as well have it be a vanilla like me and confirm Karesh at the same time."

That's actually not what happened. Click the blue arrows yourself, to see.

I told him the plan was bad. Many many times. He ignored it all, and kept going, "No it's good!". Snake posted, and there was still a lot of "No, it's good!". It was once people started turning on him that he went suicidal, and you can actually see that if you click the links.

What I am saying is actually able to be backed up in truth.

And you didn't post five minutes after me, and if you did, that would make your point even less valid? Saying, "This guy hasn't posted in five minutes, and is suspicious" is really not good logic.

[Sifright]

You know given the huge amount of info out there for Nikose being shown to lie I think it's massively fucking ballsy of you trying to shift a lynch to me.

[rpgdemon]

It is suspicious though. You went from rapid fire conversational posts to absolutely nothing almost as soon as some contention went up.

Whether you had outside reasons or not, whether you don't believe that not posting for an hour and a bit is suspicious to me it is and I'm going to express that so it makes more sense when I vote for you.

I literally didn't. I made a few posts in the early 10:00s, when I got back from class, ending right at 10:20.

Ah, phew. I missed that.

Right here. 10:20.

I wrote a page of my paper. If you would like to see it, and proofread it, and check my sources for me, I would be happy to post it. It's a dissertation on Android, PalmOS, and BeRTOS.

My next post:

Yes, he was, between being doggedly against it, and then being doggedly against it again. That's the flip flopping that I'm referring to.

11:15.

Then in another hour and 43 minutes, you say how it's so suspicious that I stopped talking. I stopped talking well before you all started being suspicious.

Now, I really need to do the things I mentioned before.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

That's actually not what happened. Click the blue arrows yourself, to see.

I told him the plan was bad. Many many times. He ignored it all, and kept going, "No it's good!". Snake posted, and there was still a lot of "No, it's good!". It was once people started turning on him that he went suicidal, and you can actually see that if you click the links.

What I'm saying is you're painting a picture of him waffling back and forth like there's nothing going on in between, but we're up to 97 pages for a reason. There's a whole fuckton of discussion, voting and changes of circumstance that led to his change in plan, most of which came from being argued out of the original plan because it was a bad plan.
I don't exactly know what else you want from it. You argued to him that it was a bad plan and then when he stopped advocating that plan you accuse him of suspicion for flip-flopping.

And you didn't post five minutes after me, and if you did, that would make your point even less valid? Saying, "This guy hasn't posted in five minutes, and is suspicious" is really not good logic.

The post where I made my suspicions about your sudden absence wasn't five minutes after your post, but I did post five minutes after you.
Again, you went from lots of posts nothing for an hour and a bit right at the point where suspicions were raised against you. Why I can't see, but I find it suspicious.

[Sifright]

Vote:RPGDEMON Reasoning is many fold, Self preservation his scummy behaviour he's pushing a lynch AWAY from nikose when nikose is shown to have been lying.

[Aldurin]

I specifically claimed that vote override I knew I didn't have right before I went to bed just so that enough shit would stir up that we would be able to identify scum better. I think it might have made some progress.

Vote: greed

It's normal this time, but greed isn't showing any strong arguments to protect himself (i.e. he's a bad liar).

Can we also get a vote count so we know where everyone is on today's lynch?

[rpgdemon]

My problem with Nikose is that he's been obviously lying, versus when you tried to point me out as scum earlier, you were just twisting words and taking them out of context. Of the two, your way of lying or hiding information is more dangerous than his. And it's still been unexplained why you did that.

Nikose's obvious lies make me want to know what his game is, before killing him. Someone mentioned the jester possibly still able to win, which is what I'm afraid of.

[Oron]

This might be the second or third time I was instantly proven wrong when saying something.

Sif, you did transition oddly from "kill me" to "don't kill me".

rpg, it seems to me that he made that transition more as going from "kill me" to "wait, don't kill me, I have a better idea."

Maybe I'm just misreading/missing things. Again.

rpg's pushing hard for a Sifright lynch, but it doesn't seem like it's unfounded. Sif's way of explaining himself was hard to follow for a while.

Either way, I don't have a decision on who I'd vote for (out of anybody) yet. Let's just not rush into a lynch. The Day's barely started. We've got time to discuss things and explain stuff.

[Sifright]

I specifically claimed that vote override I knew I didn't have right before I went to bed just so that enough shit would stir up that we would be able to identify scum better. I think it might have made some progress.

Vote: greed

It's normal this time, but greed isn't showing any strong arguments to protect himself (i.e. he's a bad liar).

Can we also get a vote count so we know where everyone is on today's lynch?

Aldurin could you explain why are you so sure of greed?

[Aldurin]

Aldurin could you explain why are you so sure of greed?

A look back through his posts and all I generally see are either excuses for inactivity (which admittedly may be excusable) and generic statements that don't make greed take a side on something. He also didn't seem very intent on talking me off during the override bluff, just asking me to explain my logic and to listen to others, instead of directly trying to make a case to defend himself. I see that as either he's a bad liar and didn't even want to try to pass himself as town very well, or he's actually taking this game from a very passive approach (which is not too helpful to do when you're a townie). I think he wants to keep as much attention off of himself as he possibly can, which is a good scum tactic.

[rpgdemon]

Blargh, is search broken for anyone else? In any case, yeah, we probably should explore other options, as well, since I think I've said just about everything I have to suspect against Sifright.

Do you guys remember who it was who said that scum last game are less likely to be so this game? Since I still highly suspect that person, since I remember they were scum last game.

Also, Bard is pretty much doing the same thing he did last game, which was not doing anything except then jumping on whoever seems to be a good person to jump. I'm saying this only because I don't remember him posting much, except to vote someone, and then vanish. I can't search, so I can't verify that this is actually true and not just faulty memory. If someone who can search can check those two for me, that'd be boss.

[rpgdemon]

Not sticking around for more conversation, gotta get to that paper now. I'll be back when I get sick of it.

[Ryanderman]

Unofficial Vote Count! Cause someone asked for it (Aludrin, I think?), and cause I'm bored at lunch.

Unless I missed some posts:

greed (2)
Aldurin
Revolving Ocelot

Nikose (1)
Verifiedz

rpgdemon (4)
IHMN
Karesh
Ryanderman
Sifright

Sifright (2)
Hawk
rpgdemon

[Sifright]

FYI, I'm still leery about the PO role. given that we could lose 4 townies at the end of the day/night cycle there is a reasonable chance we lose PO power role.

[Sifright]

Can we get a list of all the people who are posting less twice a game day on average.

[rpgdemon]

Hey, Ryander, what have you been up to? You haven't really accused anyone except for going for whoever other people are going for.

You've got to have reasons/your own thoughts on this stuff, right?

Honestly, I'd like to implore anyone who has voted for anyone with very little said about it to go into detail and elaborate, with whatever reasons you have. If you don't have good reason for it, it might be telling, and if you have a good reason for it, we really need as much information as we can get now, if the Mafia do have five people.

Related: I think the five people in the mafia number came off of Nikose originally, for what it's worth?

[Ryanderman]

I'm voting for you, because you've been acting scummy. I think the logic for why Sifright and Karesh are town, regardless of how inconsistent or suspcious Sifright has been acting, is pretty clear. And so the fact that you ignored that logic and pushed - through several walls of text - for a Sifright lynch is incredibly suspicious.

And then, when people started turning on you and voting for you, and you posted this:

Blargh, is search broken for anyone else? In any case, yeah, we probably should explore other options, as well, since I think I've said just about everything I have to suspect against Sifright.

Do you guys remember who it was who said that scum last game are less likely to be so this game? Since I still highly suspect that person, since I remember they were scum last game.

Also, Bard is pretty much doing the same thing he did last game, which was not doing anything except then jumping on whoever seems to be a good person to jump. I'm saying this only because I don't remember him posting much, except to vote someone, and then vanish. I can't search, so I can't verify that this is actually true and not just faulty memory. If someone who can search can check those two for me, that'd be boss.

My scum radar, such as it is, went crazy. Since your attack on Sifright failed, you backed off and tried to turn suspicion on someone else. Anyone else. And you're still doing so now.

[Sifright]

I'm voting for you, because you've been acting scummy. I think the logic for why Sifright and Karesh are town, regardless of how inconsistent or suspcious Sifright has been acting, is pretty clear. And so the fact that you ignored that logic and pushed - through several walls of text - for a Sifright lynch is incredibly suspicious.

And then, when people started turning on you and voting for you, and you posted this:



My scum radar, such as it is, went crazy. Since your attack on Sifright failed, you backed off and tried to turn suspicion on someone else. Anyone else. And you're still doing so now.

I agree with you some what Ryanderman but that doesn't change the fact that there are a host of players who aren't communicating.

[Ryanderman]

I agree with you some what Ryanderman but that doesn't change the fact that there are a host of players who aren't communicating.

Agreed. But that doesn't lessen my suspicion of rpg, who could easily be trying to leverage that legitimate concern to distract from him.

[Bard The 5th LW]

The way I see it, Sif and RPG BOTH make sense, and only one of them can be scum. Sif is flopping all about, but if he was lying then wouldn't the real Fluttershy come forward in regards to his and Karesh's bluff? That is really his saving grace, the lack of other fluttershys. Otherwise I'd just lynch him on his fickleness, because it makes him serem unsure of where he is going.

On the other hand, there might not be a Fluttershy. Last game, we had a safelist, and a a few main characters were on it. If we are to assume can happen, then Fluttershy or any of the mane cast can be on that safe list.

Basically, this will prove quite a bit. If we lynch RPG, and he's scum, then there is no more reason to doubt Sif and Karesh. If we lynch Sif, and he's scum, then we lynch Karesh next day. Both of them seem like equally likely targets, and one is a twofer, but I'll pitch my vote.

VOTE: RPG

Sif's been floppy on his case, but Karesh has backed it up. If their wrong, then they both get hit. I doubt Mafia would put that much focus on two off their own team members. Their numbers are (probably) small as it is. So unless the real fluttershy would please stand up, then this is where my vote lies.

[Sifright]

The way I see it, Sif and RPG BOTH make sense, and only one of them can be scum. Sif is flopping all about, but if he was lying then wouldn't the real Fluttershy come forward in regards to his and Karesh's bluff? That is really his saving grace, the lack of other fluttershys. Otherwise I'd just lynch him on his fickleness, because it makes him serem unsure of where he is going.

On the other hand, there might not be a Fluttershy. Last game, we had a safelist, and a a few main characters were on it. If we are to assume can happen, then Fluttershy or any of the mane cast can be on that safe list.

Basically, this will prove quite a bit. If we lynch RPG, and he's scum, then there is no more reason to doubt Sif and Karesh. If we lynch Sif, and he's scum, then we lynch Karesh next day. Both of them seem like equally likely targets, and one is a twofer, but I'll pitch my vote.

VOTE: RPG

Sif's been floppy on his case, but Karesh has backed it up. If their wrong, then they both get hit. I doubt Mafia would put that much focus on two off their own team members. Their numbers are (probably) small as it is. So unless the real fluttershy would please stand up, then this is where my vote lies.

False logic both of us could be townies. given your lack of activity coupled with jumping on a bandwagon to lynch RPG i'm worried as fuck about you now.

[Sifright]

especially given your insistence that one or the other HAS to be a scum because that patently isn't true.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I didn't say one HAS to be scum, just said both of them couldn't be.

[Ryanderman]

Though actually, Sifright, Karesh, and rpgdemon could all be scum and going at each other for our benefit. But I doubt it.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Though actually, Sifright, Karesh, and rpgdemon could all be scum and going at each other for our benefit. But I doubt it.

Yeah. I doubt that too.
From an outside perspective all three of us would just be drawing far more attention than is intelligent at this stage. Had one of us gained a concrete position as a leader amongst the town then maybe they'd lead a charge against a mafioso on some premise to secure their own validity. But that's not really a smart play at this point anyway. What they'd want is as many town dead as quickly as possible so that the game can end before the Vig/SKs odds of hitting them become too great.

[Sifright]

The real problem is the loss of Day 1 and 2's voting patterns has completely boned the ability to prove anything after this day. I mean it's entirely possible we lynch RPG and he ends up being a town which puts my neck on the chopping block and then it's game over.

[Sifright]

I won't be changing my vote but ideally i'd be happiest going after Nikose.

[rpgdemon]

I have no problem going after Nikose either, except out of fear that he's a Jester. If someone can confirm/deny that a Jester can't win past Day 1, I'd be comfortable with it.

Here's the thing: If I wanted to not draw attention to myself, I wouldn't have made the post about Sif. There's no conceivable reason that I would go, "HEY, LOOK AT ME MAKING ALL THESE POINTS.", if I'm scum, if we already had a hate train forming on Nikose. And we did, he even resigned himself to being killed, and Roleclaimed. Or, role-lied. We can't really tell.

The thing is though, dialog needs to happen, and even if it draws attention to me, there are things that need to be said about sketchy posting behavior.

As soon as anyone starts being suspicious of someone, there's a group of people who go, "Humm humm good points! I am gonna vote!", or "Humm humm good points. I'll check back in later!". They don't contribute or make any definite stands, and that's very sketchy to me. And since I have a bunch of people who want to lynch me anyway, I don't have to worry about people going, "You are sketchy!", for throwing out a bunch of suspicions.

FOS:
Bard
Ryander
Greed

And especially:
Gregness is flagging up a ton.

I don't know if they're scum or not, but these four haven't contributed much to discussion, aside from just popping in and out.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I have no problem going after Nikose either, except out of fear that he's a Jester. If someone can confirm/deny that a Jester can't win past Day 1, I'd be comfortable with it.


There's really no way to confirm that at all. While wikis and guides will offer a setup there's no way to tell how Fenris has altered the roles.

[Ryanderman]

I don't know if they're scum or not, but these four haven't contributed much to discussion, aside from just popping in and out.
I admittedly haven't until today. But I explained why some odd pages ago. And I've been making it a point to try to play the game more today (game day) now that I have more time. It's been more fun this way too.

[IHateMakingNames]

Town
1. Karesh
2. Sifright
4. Earl
8. IHateMakingNames

Everyone else in my mind is potentially scum.

FOS:
Bard
Ryander
Greed

And especially:
Gregness is flagging up a ton.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/nod4.gif

Unvote: rpgdemon

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/dw6osh.gif

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/nod4.gif

Unvote: rpgdemon

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/dw6osh.gif

I'll just be direct then, IHMN. If not RPG then who do you think is most suspicious? Gregness?
Give a HoS is you don't feel like voting for that person yet. Just to see if we can get a better consensus going.

[IHateMakingNames]

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/images.jpg

HoS: Nikose
HoS: gregness
HoS: Ryanderman
HoS: Bard
HoS: Verifiedz
HoS: greed
HoS: rpgdemon

[Gregness]

*snip*

And especially:
Gregness is flagging up a ton.

I don't know if they're scum or not, but these four haven't contributed much to discussion, aside from just popping in and out.

Actually, I've been TRYING to contribute to the discussion, but people keep ignoring my points in favor of jumping all up on this assinine sif/rpg debate.

And I'd like to contribute more, but quite frankly guys I'm an engineering student and so just combing through the backlog that builds up in this thread takes enough time as it is without ALSO trying to write down coherant and logical arguments.

Granted, not like some people have been even bothering with coherant arguments. :raise:

I still haven't heard anyone actually accuse me of anything beyond being bland I guess? I mean, it's like rpg (I think) was complaining about earlier. I've actually posted somewhere between 5 and 10 times each day but it just doesn't look like much when compared to 100 pages of posts.

Anyway, the big issue here is that our first two days were completely cocked up and so we almost haven't moved past our D1 level of information.

Oh, and I feel like I should refute the idea that a bunch of scum drawing attention to themselves is necessarily a bad idea. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fmDGiAmPjI)

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/images.jpg

HoS: Nikose
HoS: gregness
HoS: Ryanderman
HoS: Bard
HoS: Verifiedz
HoS: greed
HoS: rpgdemon

Ayyup.