My Little Pony: Friendship is Mafia

[Fenris]

The Factions

There is the town. The town wins when all threats to the town are eliminated.
There is a mafia. The mafia wins when the mafia comprises half of the remaining members.
There is a cult. The cult wins when that cult comprises all of the remaining members.
Any self-aligned players win when they are the last pony standing.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING YOUR ROLE, ASK ME!

The Times of Day

Day
-Votes are held during this time as to who is "lynched" that day.
-Should a "lynch" fail, that day's "lynch" is over.
-Days last for an amount of time that will be announced by myself. I'm obnoxiously busy, so they will probably be pretty long.
____(This means that if you are able to sway the majority off of you before I count the votes, you still live.)

Night
-All night roles are sent in during this time.
-You may not post in the thread.
-Nights last for a duration that will be announced by myself, and will end according to my schedule.

How to Post

-To Vote, you type Vote: NAME. It must be Bolded or it will not be counted.
-To Unvote, you type Unvote: NAME. It must be Bolded or it will not be counted.
-To HoS (Hoof of suspicion), you type HoS: NAME. It means nothing other than an easy way to see "I'm looking at you."
-When you vote or unvote, you must separate that line from the rest of the post. Unvotes and votes may be on the same line.
-When you unvote somepony, you must list their name directly following the unvote.

The Players

In Ponyville



4. Karesh


7. Sifright

9. Verifiedz
10. Earl

12. Gregness
13. rpgdemon
14. Ravashak



18. Revolving Ocelot


21. IHateMakingNames


On The Moon
11. Mr. Bookworm, Sweetie Belle, Cutie Mark Crusader - GM Moon'd Day 1
16. Geminex, Applejack, Element of Honesty (Bodyguard) - Moon'd by Mayoral Decree, Day 2
3. Nikose, Carrot Top, Possessed (Mafiate) - Purified, Day 3
22. Oron, Nightmare Moon, Mafia Don - Banished/Imprisoned/fuck you guys, Day 4

In The Forest
8. Smarty McB - Led Astray Night 1
5. Solid Snake - Led Astray Night 2
15. Hawk - Led Astray Night 3

Turned to Stone
2. P-Sleazy - Petrified Night 1
5. Solid Snake - Petrified Night 2
17. Ryanderman - Petrified Night 3
6. greed - Petrified Night 4

Cleaning House
19. Bob Dole - Grounded Night 1
20. Fawfulcopter - Broke the Fourth Wall Night 2
1. Bard - "The horror, the horror!" Night 3

-----------

My Little Pony~
My Little Pony~

Ahh ahh ahh ahh...

Princess Celestia trotted up to the stage in the midst of a confused Ponyville town square. She looked at the crowd of terrified ponies, and cleared her throat.

"My little ponies, there is no need for such alarm. While it may be true that Nightmare Moon is back, we have not only tracked her position to Ponyville, she is unable to spread eternal night over Equestria as long as I am here. Unfortunately, we are unable to pinpoint exactly which pony the Nightmare is residing in this time, but we are positive that with your help, we will be able to send it back to the moon, and permanently.

"Ponies, please help find the Nightmare and her cohorts! The fate of Equestria depends on it!"

It is now Day One. Deadline sometime. 12 to lynch.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Friendship the Hell Out of: Solid Snake

he knows what he did

[Bard The 5th LW]

Neigh

Don't think anyone in particular wants to put themselves out there in the first post, so I'll do it. It seems random lynch is the 'thing' everyone does, so I'll cast a vote

Vote: IHateMakingNames because damn I hated typing that.

[rpgdemon]

I kind of want to vote the people who were mafia last game, just 'cause.

Will we get notification before the deadline, or will it come all of a sudden?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Neigh

Don't think anyone in particular wants to put themselves out there in the first post, so I'll do it. It seems random lynch is the 'thing' everyone does, so I'll cast a vote

Vote: IHateMakingNames because damn I hated typing that.

In that case, I'll

Vote: Bard The 5th LW

for making himself such an obvious target and showing a newbie such as myself how things are done. Thanks dude!;)

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Friendship the hell out of: Hawk.

Hawks are a natural predator of adorable things. Ponies included.

[rpgdemon]

Does Friendshipping the Hell out of someone count as a vote, Fenris? Since I am totally friendshipping the hell out of people instead of voting if it does.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Unvote: IHateMakingNames

Friendshipping the hell out of: IHateMakingNames

Needed to be rectified

[Nikose Tyris]

...You know just out of predictability I'm willing to wager that Snake is Pinkie Pie of the Mane 6 and probably has a special power. That's not anything in game that's just, Fenris is bad at things and would totally do that.

[Fenris]

Does Friendshipping the Hell out of someone count as a vote, Fenris? Since I am totally friendshipping the hell out of people instead of voting if it does.

I'll consider it.

[Fenris]

Will we get notification before the deadline, or will it come all of a sudden?

Oh, and you will.

[P-Sleazy]

Ok, so I totally reported fenris on accident.

A,lso your more likely to find scumin the previous games non-scum.

[rpgdemon]

A,lso your more likely to find scumin the previous games non-scum.

Exactly what I'd expect a SCUM to say!

Honestly, I figured it was done by random chance. Like, generate a bunch of random numbers that correspond to the list of players.

[Fenris]

Ok, so I totally reported fenris on accident.

A,lso your more likely to find scumin the previous games non-scum.

Can we refrain from reporting posts that aren't breaking any rules?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Exactly what I'd expect a SCUM to say!

Honestly, I figured it was done by random chance. Like, generate a bunch of random numbers that correspond to the list of players.

It is. Which makes anypony trying to associate a conspiratorial doctrine of correlation between previous roles rather suspicious.

Hoof of Suspicion: That Sleazy pony.

[IHateMakingNames]

Friendshipping the hell out of: IHateMakingNames
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/pinkie-mad-2.gif

Friendshipping the hell out of: Bard The 5th LW

[Bard The 5th LW]

Today marks the start of a great feud.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Vote: Oron
For being suspiciously quiet. I'm working my up the list because going down lists is what communists do.

[Oron]

Vote: Oron
For being suspiciously quiet. I'm working my up the list because going down lists is what communists do.

Never fear, for I am here! I will be quiet for a little bit, though. I've been in exam mode all week.

But nevermind that!

Friendship the Hell Out Of: Smarty McBarrelpants

Someone must sway you from your methodical ways!

[Mr.Bookworm]

Vote: Oron
For being suspiciously quiet. I'm working my up the list because going down lists is what communists do.

Oh man something is clearly just the fuck up with Smarty.

Offer whimsical night of trotting and magic as apology to: Solid Snake

Friendship the hell out of: Smarty McBarrelpants

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Unvote: Oron
Vote: Fawfulcopter
Moving my way up the list!

I don't understand these strange offers of friendship. I'm confused.
make rainbow at: Oron
Am I doing it right?

[Nikose Tyris]

Oron is not being anywhere NEAR QUIET ENOUGH NOW. D:<

Friendshipping the hell out of: Oron~!

[Bard The 5th LW]

Its only been like, 3 pages guys. I don't know if amount of general noise can really be taken into account yet.

[Nikose Tyris]

BARD IS SPEAKING AGAIN

UNFRIENDING: ORON

FRIENDSHIPPING THE HELL OUT OF: BARD

[Sifright]

Vote: Bard

This is clearly page 1 only a nightmare mafia cultist pony would think it was page 3!

[Geminex]

FRIENDSHIPPING THE HELL OUT OF: Smarty

Because
a) he isn't one of the herd and
b) I'm pretty sure smarty breaks things.

[Nikose Tyris]

UNFRIENDSHIPPING: BARD

VOTE: SMARTY

BITCHES I DON'T NEED REASONS IT'S DAY 1.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Good job, ponies, we got a nice bandwagon going on here, let's keep it rolling forward.

[Fenris]

Vote count:

IHMN 1
Bard

Bard 3
Hawk
IHMN
Sifright

Hawk 1
Karesh

Fawful 1
Smarty McB

Smarty McB 4
Oron
Bookworm
Geminex
Nikose

12 to lynch, deadline sometime.

[Solid Snake]

Oh God
You guys
You're all acting so stupid
That I literally had to break my vow to stay the hell out of NPF
Just to correct your terrifying mistakes

[Geminex]

Save us, great one.
Show us how it's done.

[Solid Snake]

Okay guys, I'm going to try to help us all out here.

FIRST: After the events of the most recent game (in which I hosted), why the hell does anyone think it's a good idea to bandwagon Smarty, of all people, the guy who has a known history of acting suspiciously scummy early in the game even as town, therefore constituting an easy lynch for Scum to jump on without looking Scummy.

Like are we even trying here?
Because if we're not going to actually try to win, then I can just stop trying to actually play the game and goof off if you'd like.

Don't get me wrong. There is a chance that Smarty is Scum or Cult. It's Day One. I don't know jack ****. But I'm sure as hell not allowing a bandwagon to readily form on the one guy I know for a fact who's going to easily get bandwagoned even if he's Town. That is stupid.

Given that Smarty MIGHT be scum but also has a KNOWN HISTORY of acting scummy and being an easy target even if town, the logical things for us to do is:
* Scanning roles should attempt to scan him before we lynch him.
* Information gathering roles should attempt to gather information on him before we lynch him.

The thing is, we got plenty of time to make an educated, informed decision on Smarty. The problem is that his D1 behavior is not going to tell us jack **** as to whether he's Scum or not because of the way Smarty acts and interacts in this game. Yes, that style of play technically works to Smarty's advantage if he's scum. But we're stuck with him, for better or for worse.

Everyone bandwagoning Smarty looks terrible, Scum or Town, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for playing terribly.

SECOND: "He was scum in the last game, therefore I can't trust him in this game" and "He was Scum in the last game, therefore it's more logically likely that he's Town in this game" are both terrifyingly bad arguments, even for D1. If I see even the slightest hint you're going to make that argument, I swear to Celestia I will curb-stomp something.

THIRD: Scum benefits in D1 if they can avoid making posts with actual content and can instead rely on the inherently confusing lack of knowledge in D1 to make 'joke posts' and 'joke votes' that 'randomly' result in the elimination of a Townie.
Therefore, let's not allow 'joke votes' based on flimsy logic to happen.
Cast suspicion now, but save your votes for legitimate stuff. Don't vote based on hunches or, if you're suddenly inactive for any reason your vote will stand on record and be counted and you may end up killing a Townie based on a Pinkie Pie style hunch.

And unfortunately, none of us are as eerily accurate as Pinkie Pie.

That's right your jerks I'm actually going to try to play this game right, you're stuck with me taking this **** 'too seriously' until you decide to vote me off because you happen to enjoy losing and playing the game dumb.

FOURTH: I would rather like some clarity as to whether or not the 'Friendshipping the Hell out of' stuff actually counts as a vote, it's anti-town for that to be left ambiguous because then someone could waltz in, 'Friendship the Hell' out of a Townie and then defend his decision based on the faulty premise that he assumed doing so was equivalent of an FoS and not a Vote.

FIFTH: Fenris you are seriously going to regret inserting me into this game based entirely on Nikose wanting me in this game. Look at these walls of text. This isn't how NPF plays Mafia!

SIXTH: Nikose if you are Scum, you are going to regret arbitrarily inserting me into this game.

[Geminex]

Unvote: Smarty.

Friendshipping the hell out of: Solid Snake

:dance:

[Fenris]

FOURTH: I would rather like some clarity as to whether or not the 'Friendshipping the Hell out of' stuff actually counts as a vote, it's anti-town for that to be left ambiguous because then someone could waltz in, 'Friendship the Hell' out of a Townie and then defend his decision based on the faulty premise that he assumed doing so was equivalent of an FoS and not a Vote.

I counted it as a vote. I'd prefer "votes" to "fthoo" but whatevs.

e: I mean I can't be a huge dick about stuff in a pony game. That'd just be wrong.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I counted it as a vote. I'd prefer "votes" to "fthoo" but whatevs.

e: I mean I can't be a huge dick about stuff in a pony game. That'd just be wrong.

Unvote: Hawk

FTHOO: Solid Snake

Cause that was nowhere near smart enough to make me think that anything else we do on Day One is stupid.
There's literally no evidence to go on so taking the first lynch seriously is pretty silly.

[Solid Snake]

There's literally no evidence to go on so taking the first lynch seriously is pretty silly.

The only reason that there is "no evidence to go on" is apparently that everyone on NPF has decided that it's totally cool to play an utterly uneventful and lazy D1 in which pressure is rarely if ever logically applied, claims are never asked for before lynches, and Scum can easily ensure a Town death because they're the only ones with the slightest idea of what's going on.

I've played Mafia on other Boards.
In other communities, D1 can lead to legitimate questions being asked and pertinent information being deciphered merely by asking for justification of actions.
If nothing else, EVEN IF a Townie is eliminated on D1, if you pressure folks on D1 you'll have evidence from D1 that you can reflect on during D2. Knowing the reasoning behind why Person X voted for Person Y will help you later justify whether that person was acting rationally as a Townie at the time or if he was totally scummy.

Really, there is only one reason for you to be eager to vote off anyone who's trying to take the game seriously, and that's because you're an Anti-Town role who will directly benefit from indirectly discouraging Townies from taking the game seriously lest they become a target the minute they start demanding that people act intelligently.

And I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I don't care if he's Scum or Town or what, gunning after Smarty for acting "weird" on D1 is just about the worst play you could possibly make because it's a Null-tell. You should expect Smarty to act weird and draw attention to himself D1 because that is what he does, and he would do the same whether he's Scum or Town.

Stop playing the game in such a way that rewards inactivity and discourages intelligence and maybe we can actually win for a change.

[Ramary]

Oh right forgot about this.

FTHOO: Solid Snake

I accuse 'em of the crime of building a wall of text in a small reply neighborhood.

Hey on the bright side we are not attacking Smarty anymore.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

\

Stop playing the game in such a way that rewards inactivity and discourages intelligence and maybe we can actually win for a change.

Victory in the battle of mafia is a tertiary objective to winning the war of fun.

[Solid Snake]

In retrospect this is actually a win-win for me because I'd rather not waste my time playing Mafia with people who aren't taking the game seriously anyway.

Still, you sure as hell find a better reason to vote me out of this game than "winning the war on fun." I have too much pride in my Mafia gamesmanship to accept the idea that I'd be voted off simply for desiring to make an intelligent contribution.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Still, you sure as hell find a better reason to vote me out of this game than "winning the war on fun." I have too much pride in my Mafia gamesmanship to accept the idea that I'd be voted off simply for desiring to make an intelligent contribution.

I feel like you could have just as easily made an intellectual contribution without making the incredibly unintelligent assertion that we're all stupid for playing a game like it's a game.

[Ramary]

Still, you sure as hell find a better reason to vote me out of this game than "winning the war on fun." I have too much pride in my Mafia gamesmanship to accept the idea that I'd be voted off simply for desiring to make an intelligent contribution.

Somehow I sense this could very well be a trap.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Somehow I sense this could very well be a trap.

Ramary confirmed for Dark Lord of the Sith.

[Solid Snake]

I feel like you could have just as easily made an intellectual contribution without making the incredibly unintelligent assertion that we're all stupid for playing a game like it's a game.

So you're conceding that you're letting a personal interpretation of perceived hostility or the slight of an imagined offense dictate your perception as to whether I'm Scum or Town? Because, let's face it, assuming you have even the slightest degree of respect for my Mafia playing abilities, you'd essentially be conceding that the manner in which I've just now acted is not how I would have behaved if I were actually Scum. Because if I was Scum and I just insulted everyone for the mere sake of insulting everyone, my Scumteam would have every right to justifiably think I was the most stupid Mafia player in human history for creating a ruckus and drawing attention to myself when I could have just been inactive and escaped scrutiny.

Hell, I even had the perfect excuse to be inactive and skirt through D1. I hadn't posted in more than a week, maybe two weeks. And it'd make perfect sense for me to act on the exact strategy that was so successful for Scum last game if I was, in fact, Scum; namely, you're concentrating on the active players and letting inactives and barely-actives skirt under the radar, which is exactly what's happened before, so as Scum assuming I had two brain cells in my head I'd keep my mouth shut, say vaguely noncommittal, noncontroversial things if necessary and skirt by until / unless I was pressured.

You see I don't blame you for being offended by the fact that I basically insinuated y'all were stupid but I do blame you for interpreting the personal slight as 'Scummy behavior.' It isn't. The reality of the matter is the only reason you're voting against me now is that your panties are twisted because I dared insinuate you guys were playing a poor game. That's anti-town logic. You're not voting me off because you legit think I've been assigned a Scum role, you're just voting me because you don't like the way I'm playing the game.

Again: anti-town logic. You'll kill a lot of increasingly frustrated or angry Townies that way as opposed to actually killing off Scum, who will be very friendly and agreeable as they have the benefit of additional information to inform their decisions and they won't need to take risks and say controversial things in order to garner information as to who's Town and who isn't. You shouldn't be worried about the controversial players. You should be worried about those who tell you how great you're doing and how comfortable they are with your play. They're the ones with daggers behind their roses.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So you're conceding that you're letting a personal interpretation of perceived hostility or the slight of an imagined offense dictate your perception as to whether I'm Scum or Town? Because, let's face it, assuming you have even the slightest degree of respect for my Mafia playing abilities, you'd essentially be conceding that the manner in which I've just now acted is not how I would have behaved if I were actually Scum. Because if I was Scum and I just insulted everyone for the mere sake of insulting everyone, my Scumteam would have every right to justifiably think I was the most stupid Mafia player in human history for creating a ruckus and drawing attention to myself when I could have just been inactive and escaped scrutiny.

Hell, I even had the perfect excuse to be inactive and skirt through D1. I hadn't posted in more than a week, maybe two weeks. And it'd make perfect sense for me to act on the exact strategy that was so successful for Scum last game if I was, in fact, Scum; namely, you're concentrating on the active players and letting inactives and barely-actives skirt under the radar, which is exactly what's happened before, so as Scum assuming I had two brain cells in my head I'd keep my mouth shut, say vaguely noncommittal, noncontroversial things if necessary and skirt by until / unless I was pressured.

You see I don't blame you for being offended by the fact that I basically insinuated y'all were stupid but I do blame you for interpreting the personal slight as 'Scummy behavior.' It isn't. The reality of the matter is the only reason you're voting against me now is that your panties are twisted because I dared insinuate you guys were playing a poor game. That's anti-town logic. You're not voting me off because you legit think I've been assigned a Scum role, you're just voting me because you don't like the way I'm playing the game.

Again: anti-town logic. You'll kill a lot of increasingly frustrated or angry Townies that way as opposed to actually killing off Scum, who will be very friendly and agreeable as they have the benefit of additional information to inform their decisions and they won't need to take risks and say controversial things in order to garner information as to who's Town and who isn't. You shouldn't be worried about the controversial players. You should be worried about those who tell you how great you're doing and how comfortable they are with your play. They're the ones with daggers behind their roses.

I haven't once insinuated that you're scum, or even that I really am all that upset that you called our actions stupid. If you'd actually gotten to the point where you'd be lynched for it I personally would have called my vote off. Same thing with Hawk, actually. The only reason my vote stayed on him was because there's no chance of it actually coming to a head.

But about that last game, who was inactive? Sure, some of them were, but I recall Fenris and one other wasn't playing the inactive game at all. Hell, Fenris fucking skirted suspicion like a champ precisely because he wasn't inactive. He called historical precedent of his guilt over being too nice and the suspicions of the town to his and his groups advantage and we all went for it hook line n' sinker. So don't expect me to just buy into the idea that A mafiate will never ever dare draw attention to themselves. Because the safest place to be for a mafioso isn't the shadows where a stray bullet might hit. Where you want to be is leading the fucking town.

Which, hey! Is exactly what you're trying to do. Whether you want to admit to it or not you've swooped in and declared we're all bloody stupid and you're the only one who can lead us out of the darkness.

[Geminex]

Everybody!
Friendship! Magic! Ponies! You're making fluttershy cry!

Edit:
See?
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x418/zenax2/My%20Little%20Pony/131022811504.gif

[Bard The 5th LW]

That crying fluttershy is awfully convincing.

I think a case could be made for Smarty being scum though. If we assume that the roles are assigned at random, then he has just as much a chance of being scum as Snake or myself. If anything, his 'act like scum' thing might be a sort of diversionary tactic.

[Mr.Bookworm]

On a less serious note, I found Smarty's avatar for this game.

http://gallery.fanserviceftw.com/_images/65824b136bf3adb43577738c7cc748d0/9124%20-%20animated_gif%20communism%20my_little_pony_frien dship_is_magic%20my_soviet_pony%20pinkie_pie%20rus sia%20soviet_russia%20tagme.gif

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/MrBookworm/mysovietpony_28900.gif

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/MrBookworm/mysovietpony_29428.gif

[Oron]

Well, I get some time to check on this and find lots of pink text. Huh.

Snake's arguments make sense, and I know he tends to be the "take it (a little too) seriously" type, so he probably isn't just being crazy. However, I don't have any experience playing mafia with Snake yet, so I won't just follow along and unvote Smarty right away until something actually develops, here.

I would like to see some more discussion here other than the two-to-three man conversation that's going with a couple guys making a quip every now and then. I know it's Day 1, but it would be nice to get the ball rolling so we don't just vegetate and miss anything.

So... Snake/anyone else who's active, what should the course of action be? Smarty is being weird, but he always is! Who else could we pick on?

Now, back to partyin', partyin' (yeah!)(not really).

[Ryanderman]

I think I can safely say that Snake's argument against Karesh is strong evidence in favor of Ramary's suspicion that Snake's earlier post was a trap designed to provoke a reaction that could be used to determine scumminess. Whether Snake is Mafia himself, looking to latch onto anything he can use to build a reasonable appearing fake case against a townie, or whether he is Town aligned, truly hoping to catch a mafiate out, I don't know. I'm inclined toward the latter, as if he was mafia, when the person he accused is shown to be town after their death, suspicion would turn back toward him, which would be an undesirable outcome. It would make more sense for him, as a mafiate, to more subtly push the vote toward someone else.

Either way, he's playing at least two levels above me.

[Nikose Tyris]

Eh. I still don't think Fenris is inventive enough to make Snake anyone but Pinkie Pie. Just throwin' that out there. xD

[Oron]

It would fit pretty perfectly.

[Gregness]

For now:

FTHOO: Ramary

Due to suspicion of being the Dark Lord.


Also, Snake, replace "anti-town" with "anti-American" in all your posts.

http://gifsoup.com/view/31155/master-exploder-o.gif

[rpgdemon]

Fenris, do scum have a role to hide behind, like they did in Snake's game?

Else, could we just do a "role call" (Hehe, I am clever), and figure out who's duplicating someone else's role? Granted, this would involve disclosing a lot of information to the scum (Mainly through guesswork as to which characters might have powers), but if everyone was on board, we might be able to swing it. We'd need full activity though, as idlers would light up as a false positive.

[Fenris]

Fenris, do scum have a role to hide behind, like they did in Snake's game?

I'm not answering that.

Despite totally answering that and then deleting the post.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The role call idea is an interesting idea, could work could backfire. Beofre we attempt it we woud need two things- firstly we'd need eevryone on board and active and secondly a god idea of the kind of roles that are floating around- like a rough item of scum roles would be useful so we can run some quick maths on how a role cal should work out

[Aldurin]

I feel ashamed for not finding this thread sooner (I've been using the "Today's posts" button intermittently for about a week now). More so for having to let my eyes be raped by pink walls of text.

Friendshipping the Hell Out Of: Solid Snake

Reasoning is that you're trying your hardest to be the helper (which some of the scum took a crack at in the last game) and I am not getting fucked over by the tutorial guy again.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I feel like I'm stuck in the middle of a 30 Xanatos Pileup here, and I have no idea who's running what gambits or even what level they're playing them at!

So for now I'm just gona stick with my original vote, as it does no harm to anyone and it's safer than taking a blind stab in the dark, especially since Snake made a convincing post to change votes double-backwards-sideways on myself! (Yes, I am actually confused at this point). On the one hoof, I can see Snakes point, on the other, it could be a trap (which may have backfired now). So I'm taking a third option and ignoring it for now.

Couple of questions I forgot to ask though; Do we have any idea of the ratio of town to scum, and do the scum get told who else is on their side straight away? Or are we all completely blind right now? I presume they know their teammates, in which case that might make mean Snake was trying to save his ally from being lynched by encouraging people to play "sensibly", which then backfired and made him look more suspicious instead. Of course it could just be Snake being Snake and taking thigs way too seriously. But then he could be using that as a ruse to convince us he's something he's not. But then, knowing that somebody might suspect that ruse, he could be instead being playing it totally straight! Nobody ever suspects the triple bluff! Or maybe they do in this game, I dunno.

[Sifright]

I think scum know who they are straight away and can vote as a cohesive block to begin with, however scum often don't do so on the first day to try delay the point at which you can see a voting pattern appear unless ofcourse they have to break a tie on a potential vote between a mafiate and townie member.

Edit: we don't know town to scum ratio, and you are correct in that snake could very well be trying to save smarty as they are both scum. However we don't have the information available to conclusively say one way or the other it's certainly suspicious but that isn't really enough to warrant a lynch unless some one starts putting forth a more convincing argument.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Couple of questions I forgot to ask though; Do we have any idea of the ratio of town to scum, and do the scum get told who else is on their side straight away?

The "scum" are actually several different factions, most of them working against each other. Those within the factions know who the others are, yeah.

We can guesstimate the number of scum, though.

There is a mafia. The mafia wins when the mafia comprises half of the remaining members.

There is a cult. The cult wins when that cult comprises all of the remaining members.

Any self-aligned players win when they are the last pony standing.

The Mafia is usually 5 members, though I've seen 4 or 6 before. The cult is almost always just the one cult leader on day 1. "Self-aligned players" usually means that there's a serial killer somewhere.

So assuming no other scum (which is a dangerous assumption to make), we're looking at a base ratio of 31.8% scum. Course, that grows pretty damn fast as the nights go on, townies die, and the cult recruits people.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Most games I've played have scum around 25% of the town starting out. I'm going to guess we have 4 mafia and 1 cult. Could be 1 mafia.
Re the me bandwagon: Obviousy I don'tagree with it. And I'm a pretty active poster and will make lots of posts/ie give lots of information so if I were to be scum you would get information to use against me. I'm not capable of cruising under the radar and thus for a day 1 low information boot I am a terrible terrible choice.

[rpgdemon]

So, people who haven't posted, why have you not posted? There are a fair number of you, from my rough remembering things.

Before lynching someone who is giving information to us, even if it's an attempt to be misleading, why aren't we taking out people who aren't really interested in the game (And thus won't be too torn up over being the first lynch), and aren't giving us ANYTHING to work on? They're not even helping voting swing in our favor, they're just filling space. The only downside to falsely taking one of them out is that we miss a kill on scum.

[Sifright]

HOS: rpgdemon

Killing off the inactives is a very easy way for scum to even the odds of victory with out offending any of the townies and it's exactly what scum tried to pull last game. Hmmm

[rpgdemon]

Killing off an inactive player falsely doesn't do much for the scum as far as I see it. It doesn't tip the ratio towards them, as the inactive player didn't really "have" a vote to begin with.

In terms of what the town gains versus what the scum gains, we serve to gain more by killing off an inactive player than they do. We could hit them, when they're trying to hide in inactivity, instead of taking out someone who seems to be giving help and advice.

My main problem with taking out Snake/Smarty turn 1 is that it feels a lot like people just jumping on them since it was a trend, and that way they don't have to worry about their individual actions/scum can mask their kill.

This was literally the thing that WON the game for the scum last time, all the bandwagonning. Someone points a finger, someone jumps that guy, then mob mentality kicks in (And the scum start piling on), and then oh, whoops, there's another townie. The killing of inactive players was just a symptom of the bandwagon problem, not the cause of the loss.

[greed]

So, people who haven't posted, why have you not posted? There are a fair number of you, from my rough remembering things.

Before lynching someone who is giving information to us, even if it's an attempt to be misleading, why aren't we taking out people who aren't really interested in the game (And thus won't be too torn up over being the first lynch), and aren't giving us ANYTHING to work on? They're not even helping voting swing in our favor, they're just filling space. The only downside to falsely taking one of them out is that we miss a kill on scum.

I was gonna post a random vote, then Snake posted this huge attack on random voting, so I balked. And then I wasn't on the net anymore for a few hours. I'm also active at odd times due to being in like the reverse timezone for most of you (that is US East coasters). As it is I'm not really that experienced at mafia and a lot of people are making pretty good arguments as far as I can tell.

Which leads to the issue I have at the moment. Scum hides in anonymity. Scum hides in the critics. Scum hides in the most visible posters. These are all being said, and all have been true in past games. So I'm mulling over who to vote for seeing as we seem to be heading toward taking a day one vote seriously which I haven't done before. About the only thing I can add is, the last game (Homestuck Mafia) seemed like a total cluster fuck due to massive lack of activity, so any second timers probably shouldn't judge things by that one.

[Sifright]

Killing off an inactive player falsely doesn't do much for the scum as far as I see it. It doesn't tip the ratio towards them, as the inactive player didn't really "have" a vote to begin with.

In terms of what the town gains versus what the scum gains, we serve to gain more by killing off an inactive player than they do. We could hit them, when they're trying to hide in inactivity, instead of taking out someone who seems to be giving help and advice.

My main problem with taking out Snake/Smarty turn 1 is that it feels a lot like people just jumping on them since it was a trend, and that way they don't have to worry about their individual actions/scum can mask their kill.

This was literally the thing that WON the game for the scum last time, all the bandwagonning. Someone points a finger, someone jumps that guy, then mob mentality kicks in (And the scum start piling on), and then oh, whoops, there's another townie. The killing of inactive players was just a symptom of the bandwagon problem, not the cause of the loss.

It's not that killing inactive changes the vote situation but what it does do is bring them closer to total victory especially as inactives wont always be so. On the other hand if we ignore inactives totally it gives scum a very effective way to hide.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I don't know, I feel a bit like Snake's shut us down a bit- normallly (read: every mafia game on here except hthe last one) we through out some random votes then somebody in response says something totally suspect and we lynch them and all their buddies. Works pretty well then.
I don't know how we're supposed to get info now that Snake has called out the random voters, all the scum can just hide behind the "I didn't want to be a random voter" now.
If it was anybody else I would think it was a bit scummy but to be honest it fits with Snakes posting so Imma chalk it up to snake being snake..

So in lieu of that we could try and figure out what kind of roles we think are floating around though this would arm the scum with fake role claims potentially so I don't think we should do that.

So I'm asking Snake- without the churning activity causing byrandom voting how do you suggest we proceed day 1?
The only thing I can come up with is rounding out the inactives- Sif posted that it could help the Scum I don't agree. The scum k now who each other are, they don't want information to be spread around the town- the more the town talks the more likely scum will be given away/incriminated. The problem last game was half the town not really playing- so there was little discussion and the scum had strong control of the vote.
But I mean this is not my favoured plan but I don't have any other one right now.
More posting//opinions from other players wouldbeuseful.

[Sifright]

Personally I think if we did a full role call it would work pretty well but thats risky.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

How exactly would the role call work anyway? People just go "hey guys I'm totally X and I have X special ability"? Cos I don't see how that works when people can just start making up roles and we have no way to verify their claims. And even if someone is telling the truth, how do we know? All it will do is sow more confusion and allows the scum to find out who might be decent targets to kill off. I guess that's the "risky" part of the plan, but I don't see how it can help us.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I had a rolecall once in a game, it pretty much just singled out the town's power and lead to easy mafia victory.

[Aldurin]

We shouldn't do a role call because the scum would probably claim to be normal townies (and use obscure names from the show), then they'd know who were the important roles and we'd be more or less screwed.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah, I thought as much. Let's not do that.

EDIT; In fact, now that I think about it, it's a REALLY stupid idea, so

Unvote: Bard

Vote: rpgdemon

For having the idea in the first place.

[Bard The 5th LW]

A role call pretty much exposes the big roles. Chances are, even if you find who might be mafia one night, your PO or Vig will get offed the same night. Good reason to overall not announce your role unless your vanilla townie. But even then, the Mafia knows who isn't vanilla and can just throw darts elsewhere.

[Solid Snake]

The role call idea is terrible and should die quickly in a fire.

The 'random voting' D1 strategy didn't work in Homestuck Mafia, rarely works in most Mafia games, and won't work now. Again, Mafia has the advantage of knowing who is on the rest of their team and who isn't. It is very easy under the guise of 'random voting' for Mafiates to simply refuse to ever suspect each other and instead exclusively suspect town simply due to the statistical reality that there are considerably more town out there than scum. And it is notoriously easy for random voters to then chalk up their votes for random townies as "Well, that's what we do D1, we just toss around random votes like a chump and pray we hit something."

I can't possibly see how preventing that line of terrible logic from justifying scum's potential D1 actions . Personally, I'd much rather vote an inactive out simply for being inactive (or barely-active, barely-contributing) D1 than engage in a Random votefest, though the ideal option is to grill each other.



So I'm asking Snake- without the churning activity causing byrandom voting how do you suggest we proceed day 1?

Research past Mafia games (Homestuck was recent enough, admittingly the more distant the game the less likely the evidence is relevant.) Search for discrepancies in behavior or similar patterns of behavior.

Fenris pulled this strategy off (as scum) in Homestuck Mafia but, newsflash, the reason Fenris pulled this off (as scum) in Homestuck is because it's usually a tried and true pro-town strategy, and his cherry-picking way of doing so helped him sound pro-town as hell. Furthermore, by announcing this strategy outright I'm going to now make Scum worry about sounding as much as possible like their 'past selves' which can lead to slip-ups.

The key is not to cherry-pick but to be objective in analyzing past trends. So with Homestuck Mafia, one easy way to go about is to say "Who's acting differently D1 today than they acted D1 in that game, and why might they be acting differently today?" And, the logical corollary now that this has been announced: "Who's trying too hard to capture a similar pro-town vibe?"

This is why I'm against a Smarty lynch; he's more or less being the same Smarty he was D1 last game, and while it's possible that Smarty's just a very good Mafia player who plays the same kind of game regardless of alignment (again, researching other past games might give me a better indication of this) it's ALSO possible, even probable, that Smarty is just being Smarty and that going for the obvious lynch of Smarty because he's 'weird.'



The scum k now who each other are, they don't want information to be spread around the town- the more the town talks the more likely scum will be given away/incriminated. The problem last game was half the town not really playing- so there was little discussion and the scum had strong control of the vote.

This kind of logic is actually precisely why I'm most skeptical of those whose justifications for voting me (or Smarty, or possibly someone else) off simply boil down to: "I don't like him because he sounds too active and too serious and I dislike the nature of his serious activity."

That's classic anti-town, pro-scum logic. Scum wants to find ways to phrase their votes under a cloak of pro-town "why you bein' so wwweeeeiiirrrrddd" bullcrap when, in reality, they're gunning after active Townies who constitute the greatest 'threat' . There are plenty of legitimate reasons for a townie to suspect Smarty, or myself, or anyone else, but an illegitimate reason is simply "You're too serious bro, you're actually trying to win instead of having fun."

My guess is of the Scumteam, at least one Scum is being active and trying to push an agenda, possibly that agenda because, knowing that I'm Town (I have the benefit of knowing my Role) my guess is scum would really like me the hell out of this game.

But I also suspect at least one or two on the Scumteam are completely inactive and/or irrelevant-posting, because irrelevant, inconsequential "I'm here, not inactive, but not doing shit" posting by Scum in early days was also a classic NPF strategy for the Mafia team in D1 of Homestuck. Be on the lookout for those whose do post but whose posts have very little in the way of actual content. Like for example Nikose, who wasted an entire post of 'content' just speculating on the hypothetical that I might be Pinkie Pie. I'd feel more comfortable voting for him on that alone if not for the fact that Nikose, unfortunately enough, may just be being Nikose.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The role call idea is terrible and should die quickly in a fire.

The 'random voting' D1 strategy didn't work in Homestuck Mafia, rarely works in most Mafia games, and won't work now. Again, Mafia has the advantage of knowing who is on the rest of their team and who isn't. It is very easy under the guise of 'random voting' for Mafiates to simply refuse to ever suspect each other and instead exclusively suspect town simply due to the statistical reality that there are considerably more town out there than scum. And it is notoriously easy for random voters to then chalk up their votes for random townies as "Well, that's what we do D1, we just toss around random votes like a chump and pray we hit something."
Random voting has worked fantastically well in about half the games I've played. You don't understnad how the random voting works- it's gotnothing to do with randomly hitting scum, its got to do with causing crap and getting people to make mistakes when you accuse them of shit. It basically getting everyone talking.


I can't possibly see how preventing that line of terrible logic from justifying scum's potential D1 actions . Personally, I'd much rather vote an inactive out simply for being inactive (or barely-active, barely-contributing) D1 than engage in a Random votefest, though the ideal option is to grill each other.


Do you knwo how you grill each other? You start by throwing random votes. There is currentely nothing to grill based on.
How do you grill with no information? We need information to flow. We need people to talk. We need to rile up inactives/low actives or ditch them.
You are talking nonsense- the very reason for random voting is to start grilling and activity.

[QUOTE]
[COLOR="Magenta"]Research past Mafia games (Homestuck was recent enough, admittingly the more distant the game the less likely the evidence is relevant.) Search for discrepancies in behavior or similar patterns of behavior.

We don't have a big backlog of games with most of the participants here. Not a valid strategy.
Like I played a lot and you are free to look at me.
Other players whoplayed a lot in the past I remember- Moogle, P-Sleazy, Hawk, Bard, Ryandermen- none of them have posted enough to really make pattern recognition. Exactly the problem we're trying to fix.


Fenris pulled this strategy off (as scum) in Homestuck Mafia but, newsflash, the reason Fenris pulled this off (as scum) in Homestuck is because it's usually a tried and true pro-town strategy, and his cherry-picking way of doing so helped him sound pro-town as hell. Furthermore, by announcing this strategy outright I'm going to now make Scum worry about sounding as much as possible like their 'past selves' which can lead to slip-ups.

Stop rewriting history. The reason it worked in Homestuck Mafia was because nobody was playing. There was like 6 active players and most of them were mafia. I woud like to prevent that again.


This is why I'm against a Smarty lynch; he's more or less being the same Smarty he was D1 last game, and while it's possible that Smarty's just a very good Mafia player who plays the same kind of game regardless of alignment (again, researching other past games might give me a better indication of this) it's ALSO possible, even probable, that Smarty is just being Smarty and that going for the obvious lynch of Smarty because he's 'weird.'

I don't see how I'm acting "weird". Nobody has given a good reason for bandwagoning me- the bandwagon is just a random bandwagon.



[COLOR="Magenta"]This kind of logic is actually precisely why I'm most skeptical of those whose justifications for voting me (or Smarty, or possibly someone else) off simply boil down to: "I don't like him because he sounds too active and too serious and I dislike the nature of his serious activity."
Yes active players are good. We like active players. Inactive players you never really get information on. So when we have no information at all and no better votes we should vote inactive. I'm not saying right away bandwagon them- what I'ms aying is if deadline approaches and we have no suspicion on anyone bandwagon an inactive.


That's classic anti-town, pro-scum logic. Scum wants to find ways to phrase their votes under a cloak of pro-town "why you bein' so wwweeeeiiirrrrddd" bullcrap when, in reality, they're gunning after active Townies who constitute the greatest 'threat' . There are plenty of legitimate reasons for a townie to suspect Smarty, or myself, or anyone else, but an illegitimate reason is simply "You're too serious bro, you're actually trying to win instead of having fun."
Did you even read my post? I'msaying we SHOULDN'T vote out talkers- we should vote out the silent.
Like I don't even know what you are arguing anymore.
I'm so confused Snake- you've quoted me on mass and are calling me out for trying to vote out active players when I'm advocating precisely the opposite.
Snake you are trying to mislead the town and convince them I'm arguing the opposite of what I'm arguing. I don't know why, it's a bizarre tactic for a scum to pull.
Like I don'tknow what you're smoking but I want some.


But really Snake, you are not helping. All you are doing is scaring people into not posting. You are doing precisely the opposite of what we need on day 1. You are adopting ahigh ground position of "super-mafia player" but you are spouting bullshit which only would be useful if you were playing with a very specific set of highly active players playing to very specific codes of conduct.

[Solid Snake]

Did you even read my post? I'msaying we SHOULDN'T vote out talkers- we should vote out the silent.
Like I don't even know what you are arguing anymore.
I'm so confused Snake- you've quoted me on mass and are calling me out for trying to vote out active players when I'm advocating precisely the opposite.
Snake you are trying to mislead the town and convince them I'm arguing the opposite of what I'm arguing. I don't know why, it's a bizarre tactic for a scum to pull.
Like I don'tknow what you're smoking but I want some.


Uh, Smarty, I wasn't actually responding to you specifically there.
That entire point you thought was specifically directed at you was in fact, not directed at you at all.
Which really invalidates like, 80% of the basis for the muckraking you're attempting there.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Unvote: IHMN

Not sure how much time is left in the day, but I doubt voting IHMN will really accomplish anything. Guess I'll read over the last mafia and the stuff in this one before making a real vote.

[Gregness]

Sooo, this is my first mafia game; tell me: is this much D1 drama typical?

Also, do the scum HAVE to off someone each night? Does town HAVE to off someone each day?

It just seems we'll have a lot more information to go on later.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Sooo, this is my first mafia game; tell me: is this much D1 drama typical?

Think we're running a bit behind on our drama quota actually. Quick, someone needlessly antagonize someone else for a perceived minor slight.

Also, do the scum HAVE to off someone each night? Does town HAVE to off someone each day?

No and no, but the Mafia will always kill someone at night, because there is literally no reason not to. The Town can vote no lynch, but that's a terrible idea in almost all cases, for reasons enumerated in Homestuck Mafia where we got into a big argument about it.

[rpgdemon]

Sooo, this is my first mafia game; tell me: is this much D1 drama typical?

Also, do the scum HAVE to off someone each night? Does town HAVE to off someone each day?

It just seems we'll have a lot more information to go on later.

Yeah, I thought the same thing last game: Wait until night to get a clue or something, and then vote off that, but the flavor for the kill doesn't really give you any clues, at least in Snake's game (The only experience I have).

The main thing I learned was that bandwagonning only helps scum. Weigh why you want to vote someone, and vote them, but don't let people get away with going, "He seems to be the guy to kill, voting him.", and treat such people with suspicion.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Uh, Smarty, I wasn't actually responding to you specifically there.
That entire point you thought was specifically directed at you was in fact, not directed at you at all.
Which really invalidates like, 80% of the basis for the muckraking you're attempting there.


You sprinkled your posts with quotes from me and then responded to them! How is that not responding to me?

[Sifright]

Ok so who is inactive so far? IF you guys are saying killing an inactive is better as they aren't contributing?

[Nikose Tyris]

ITT: Everyone has their own ideas of what is a good opening gambit all around, and Smarty is probably the cult leader.

Edit: Inactives need to be proven inactive, and not just lurking for the sake of screwin' with people. Power roles tend to be lurkers or heavy posters as opposed to absentees. "Vanilla Town" isn't a label that people care too much about.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I don't see why we should differentiate between inactives and lurkers. If you are lurking that doesn't help town much, town needs people to talk and vote duringthe day because that is the major problem. I have no problem voting lurkers at all.
Also if we start voting lurkers, the other lurkers wills tart talking, that is pretty much the end goal here.
If we're voting inactives and you want a definite inactive (if you have problems voting lurkers) I would stick by Fawfulcopter- never made a post, hasn't played past games so we can't judge his inactive behaviour against that and doesn't post anywhere else in the forums so we can't say whats up. That'spretty inactive to me.

[Solid Snake]

Smarty: The second time I quoted you I was reinforcing your point, not detracting from it.
You said: "The scum know who each other are, they don't want information to be spread around the town."

Then I responded with, "The logic you just articulated is exactly why I'm skeptical of people who want to vote you or I off right now with the underlying logic that we're being too active / weird / 'productive' / gambit-ing D1."

(To clarify, the exact nature of my argument is: Scum only benefits from discouraging activity, therefore if someone on the Scumteam pressures anyone who dares try to make things 'serious' and insinuates all such activity is scummy, activity will be discouraged as Town roles, particularly Town power, avoid articulating their suspicions or plotting pro-town strategies for fear that their efforts will be 'rewarded' with votes and that they'd have a better chance of surviving personally through inactivity. Scum benefits most if they can get individual Townies to adopt personal survival strategies -- if Townies are goaded into valuing their own survival over the success of the Town as a whole, Town might as well just hand the keys over.)

(...Coincidentally, not long after I advanced that argument, a very similar stylistic argument was turned against me under the pretense of "By discouraging random voting, Snake is discouraging activity," which I completely disagree with because asking people to merely approach the game intelligently only discourages activity if people refuse to play the game smart and just want to goof off.)

And then I explained my criticism of the argument made by those individuals who tried to advance the argument that I was actively and seriously participating D1, therefore I was scummy.

I do not believe interpreting my posts accurately is hard, it just requires actually reading them instead of saying "Pink wall of text, I'd like to avoid that."

Anyway I really want to hear from Bob the Merc. Where are you, Bob the Merc?

[rpgdemon]

ITT: Everyone has their own ideas of what is a good opening gambit all around, and Smarty is probably the cult leader.

How do you figure?

[Aldurin]

Sure, call him the cult leader because he's a communist.

Way to be a nice person, Nikose.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Oh ok, I misunderstand your poit Snake. I think you are massively underestimating the rationale of the random vote (or I'm massively overestimating it- but it's hitscum in about half the games I've played).

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Also communists hate cults! They all about scientific enlightenment.

[Nikose Tyris]

Alduin was culted night 0.

RPG is serial Killer.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It was Nikose in the billiards room with the revolver.

[Bard The 5th LW]

There is a cult. The cult wins when that cult comprises all of the remaining members.

Don't you mean a colt?

Anyways, I actually think a random vote is more likely to hit a townie than scum, but it might be able to get things going? Who do you propose we random vote in this case?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well mathematically yes we will hit a townie more than a scum. But the advantage I liked to random voting was crazy accusations that flew against pretty much everyone in Day 1 often got somebody to slip up and reveal their status in response to accusations. But now that we have sat down and discussed it that is unikely to happen and if we just choose someone and random vote them off I agree it is probably more likely to hit townie.
But it does have the advantage of pushing the game along (do we have a deadline at the mo?) and preventing people losing interest so I'm sticking with my FawlCopter stance or whatever his name is.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I'm just gona stick with voting for rpgdemon for now for coming up with that dangerous and pointless plan to expose everyones roles, because to me that either makes him a dangerous fool or a really obvious scum, either of which we could do without. Unless he can give me a compelling reason to change my mind that is, in which case I could be swayed to change to a random inactive, because let's face it, inactives are either scum trying to fly under the radar, or they're people who just don't care about the game and have dropped out, again, both of which we could do without.

Voting inactives out does make sense though, the more we prune the easier it is to see who's still playing and the easier it will be to work out individual agendas.

[Geminex]

To be honest, I was mostly joking when I picked Snake. This much activity from him isn't suspicious as such, I think, it's just snake being snake. I can totally see him getting annoyed over people playing the game wrong, and this isn't even excessively wordy for him. I don't think he's trying to defend smarty at all, he's just being pedantic. In a good way. Sorta. Uhm. If he and smarty are both scum, then it'd make sense to assume that he's doing it to defend the dude, but I don't think the odds of that are great. Smarty? Might be, we dunno. But snake's right, it wouldn't make sense for scum to talk this much. I'm no expert, but, again, unless smarty is scum as well, Scum-snake wouldn't have any motivation to yell at us. As such, unvoting snake for the time being.

Not sure who to vote for. I'm thinking RPGdemon is just being a bit noob-ish, and this post (http://nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1156306&postcount=28) by bookie is making me suspicious. He seemed awfully eager to encourage smarty-lynching.

UNVOTE: Snake

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'll be loathe on RPG, it's only his second game.Heprobably just noobish.

[Geminex]

Also:
Also communists hate cults! They all about scientific enlightenment.
Cool story bro. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism)

(To add actual substance, this is my first online mafia game, and, like, my third overall so don't expect too much from me, folks)

[Fenris]

Don't you mean a colt?

Nope.

[rpgdemon]

Fools are important!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6of3kMxV6z4

More on topic:

Re: Nikose: What is night 0? Does night 0 exist, as a pregame thing?

As for me being the serial killer, heck, I'd believe it. Last game, the only accusation made by directly saying, "You are X" was Fenris near the end, and everyone was all, "IF YOU'RE WRONG, WE KILL YOU." (Unfortunately, the lynch meant that no one could kill him next round, since mafia won). Since that's the case, I dunno if you'd just make that up.

Do you know when you're the serial killer, or is it just a townie for whom people passively die at random each night until they're killed, without their knowledge? Since that would change whether or not I vote for myself to keep the town from getting double-killed each night.


Re: Fenris: Why you hate fun?

[Fenris]

Re: Fenris: Why you hate fun?

'Cause puns are only good if they make sense.

[Solid Snake]

Alduin was culted night 0.

RPG is serial Killer.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

Vote: Nikose

Because I <3 you.

...No, actually because predicting potential Mafia night kills without the context of power role knowledge is, believe it or not, a tried and true Scum strategy.
...Town, generally speaking, is far more worried about who to lynch than worrying about who may (or may not) die N1. Predicting the activity of what Scum will do, particularly on D1, is an absolute exercise of futility for Town.

Scum, however, benefits by making a prediction that someone will die N1 and then not killing that person N1. If townies eventually collectively buy into a repeated notion that "Snake (or anyone else), if he is Town, will die tonight because X," scum will easily yet subtly guide Town into a mislynch. If Nik is scum his entire ploy would therefore be: "I'll establish I believe that Snake is almost certainly Town now, then express abject disbelief as he continues to survive (all the while knowing he's alive because we're not targeting him), paint a bullseye on his back and let others deal the deathblows."

Also, the problem with Nik's posts is that his lack of elaboration prevents any of us from knowing whether he's actually being serious in anything he types or joking. Which, again, is a vagueness strategy that benefits Scum. Nik could totally play off any comment he makes as "Nik being Nik." I'd rather not spend the whole game questioning the sincerity of every one-sentence statement he makes.

NOTE: Even in typing this I am aware of the likelihood that I am overestimating the crap out of Nikose, and out of everyone playing this game. Assuming Nikose of all people would be playing intelligently and making such gambits as scum is kind of like assuming that a monkey could write a Shakespearean play. (Which, if you're Smarty, is apparently quite easy to believe.)
Nonetheless, I'm sticking by my guns and also suggesting to you all that I think Town Nik would be much more talkative than this; I think there's a greater probability Scum Nik would feel a sense of responsibility towards his teammates and subsequently tone down his usually chatty behavior to benefit his team.

As Town 'Nilla, Nik would totally like be "I AM CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE YOU PUNKS," and he'd create some controversy. I know you Nik! You would!

[Mr.Bookworm]

Re: Nikose: What is night 0? Does night 0 exist, as a pregame thing?

Yes, there's a Night 0 in some Mafia games, but it didn't happen in this game. If it had, Fenris would have posted something like "Night 0 over" in the first post, and there would be several dead people lying around.

Vote: Nikose

Because I <3 you.

...No, actually because predicting potential Mafia night kills without the context of power role knowledge is, believe it or not, a tried and true Scum strategy.

Nikose's post is such a blatantly obvious lie that I have no idea what he's going for.

He could be a lynch-blocker of some sort for the scum, trying to get us to waste a lynch on him.

He could be a Jester trying to win. I had that role, once, and I did something similar.

He could just be stupid.

Not enough data, unfortunately.

At any rate, Unvote: Smarty McBarrelpants.

[Geminex]

Bookworm, outta curiosity.
Why unvote smarty all of a sudden?

[Oron]

So... interesting discussion so far.

Are we still considering random-voting somebody? I haven't seen much in the way of "I think we should vote to lynch X," except for Snake suggesting Nikose as the target. There was only one response to that point so far, so I don't know.

On rpgdemon: Yeah, I bet he's just being curious. On the other hand, he could be using that to his advantage - playing the ignorance card to suggest a full roleclaim, which would make sense if he were scum.

On Nikose: Alduin was culted night 0.

RPG is serial Killer.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

Why was only the bolded part focused on? Are you being defensive, Snake? What about the "Aldurin was culted" or "Bob's the Cult leader" parts? I kind of saw the whole post as "Eh, Nikose is being facetious." I haven't played mafia with him, though, so I wouldn't know his in-game behavior. You claim to know what he'd do in a given situation, however.

I don't know if you are trying to hide something, though, so I'm not going to do anything.

Re: Fenris:

Isn't a colt a horse? A pony is a little horse, so it's like a colt.

[Fenris]

Isn't a colt a horse? A pony is a little horse, so it's like a colt.

A colt is a young male horse.

It is nothing like a cult. It makes sense on basis of sounding similar alone - saying "there is a colt in this game" implies a single young male horse.

[Oron]

Aw, alright.

I thought it was funny, at least.

Then again, I'm sleep deprived from homework and playing catch up on my readings.

Edit: Wait. All of the ponies in the show are female, aren't they? I can see why that wouldn't seem as funny, then.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Bookworm, outta curiosity.
Why unvote smarty all of a sudden?

Oh man something is clearly just the fuck up with Smarty.

Offer whimsical night of trotting and magic as apology to: Solid Snake

Friendship the hell out of: Smarty McBarrelpants

Good job, ponies, we got a nice bandwagon going on here, let's keep it rolling forward.

I was not doing the SRSBIDNESS mafia thing when I voted for him. I might revote for him if I decide he's acting scummy, but I don't think he is right now.

[Bard The 5th LW]

WHen does the night end?

[Fenris]

WHen does the night end?

At some point after the day does.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Bluh, I meant the day. When does it end? Has that been decided yet?

[Oron]

Are you just eyeballing it until there's a reasonable bit of activity by way of getting some votes in?

Regardless of how much time's left...

Unvote: Smarty

Nothing's happening there, and it was a joke vote anyway.

[Fenris]

Bluh, I meant the day. When does it end? Has that been decided yet?

Probably Wednesday or Thursday.

Let's say Thursday afternoon.

I'm usually free then.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Then I'd say its best to get a majority rather than wait for the time to run out. I'm inclined to agree with Smarty, despite his being a dirty communist. Fawfulcopter has actually been inactive since the 5th it seems, so if he is on either side, mafiate or town, he's probably just fodder.

[Nikose Tyris]

Assuming Nikose of all people would be playing intelligently

Ahahahahahahahahaha


*pauses, deep breath*


Ahahahahahahahaha


Nevermind, whoever is bodyguard just protect the HELL out of snake, he's gotta be the PO or some shit, this is adorable.

[Solid Snake]

Entertaining you is precisely what I'm here for, Nik.

I'm almost going to regret convincing everyone to kill you off because the game will be much less fun without you.
But you reek of the scent of the scum, which means you have to die. =/

[Nikose Tyris]

Well I'm at college, so if you kill me off can you do that before I get home so I don't get into some dickering argument? I'll be home around 5:30 PM EST. if you let me live till then I suppose I should defend myself normally? :P

[also did your arguement actually sway anyone or is everyone just going 'lolsnake'?]

[Mr.Bookworm]

Alduin was culted night 0.

The logical flaw

In your deceitful planning

revealed to all

RPG is serial Killer.

Well, yes, but I try not to judge peop-oh you meant in mafia, yeah no.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Probably, yeah.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

There's no one named Bob the Merc playing this game.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Also:

Cool story bro. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism)

(To add actual substance, this is my first online mafia game, and, like, my third overall so don't expect too much from me, folks)

USSR is not communism. What yo talking about?


assuming that a monkey could write a Shakespearean play. (Which, if you're Smarty, is apparently quite easy to believe.)
Don't be silly. Monkeys have a far better understanding of dynamic character and subtlety than Shakespeare ever did.


Vote: Nikose

Because I <3 you.

...No, actually because predicting potential Mafia night kills without the context of power role knowledge is, believe it or not, a tried and true Scum strategy.
...Town, generally speaking, is far more worried about who to lynch than worrying about who may (or may not) die N1. Predicting the activity of what Scum will do, particularly on D1, is an absolute exercise of futility for Town.

Scum, however, benefits by making a prediction that someone will die N1 and then not killing that person N1. If townies eventually collectively buy into a repeated notion that "Snake (or anyone else), if he is Town, will die tonight because X," scum will easily yet subtly guide Town into a mislynch. If Nik is scum his entire ploy would therefore be: "I'll establish I believe that Snake is almost certainly Town now, then express abject disbelief as he continues to survive (all the while knowing he's alive because we're not targeting him), paint a bullseye on his back and let others deal the deathblows."

Also, the problem with Nik's posts is that his lack of elaboration prevents any of us from knowing whether he's actually being serious in anything he types or joking. Which, again, is a vagueness strategy that benefits Scum. Nik could totally play off any comment he makes as "Nik being Nik." I'd rather not spend the whole game questioning the sincerity of every one-sentence statement he makes.

NOTE: Even in typing this I am aware of the likelihood that I am overestimating the crap out of Nikose, and out of everyone playing this game. Assuming Nikose of all people would be playing intelligently and making such gambits as scum is kind of like assuming that a monkey could write a Shakespearean play. (Which, if you're Smarty, is apparently quite easy to believe.)
Nonetheless, I'm sticking by my guns and also suggesting to you all that I think Town Nik would be much more talkative than this; I think there's a greater probability Scum Nik would feel a sense of responsibility towards his teammates and subsequently tone down his usually chatty behavior to benefit his team.

As Town 'Nilla, Nik would totally like be "I AM CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE YOU PUNKS," and he'd create some controversy. I know you Nik! You would!

Umm Nikose was clearly joke voting.

[Sifright]

Mafia 101: if your about to be lynched and have a powerrole that is pro town FFS reveal it so we don't accidently murder an important townie. I made that exact mistake last game mainly because i felt the chances of town winning were 0. I shouldn't have made that mistake though.

Edit: don't reveal your role though unless you will be lynched with out doing so.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I'm not as worried about town lynches as I am the mafia murdering me in my sleep! Consequently what's the etiquette on murdering newbies so soon in the game? Because that would be totally uncool.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Put a red X on your door, you'll be safe

[rpgdemon]

And so, with a hard deadline approaching, the chat fell quiet.

I still don't really suspect Nikose that much, despite his accusation of me. It makes no sense that he'd just make things up to get himself killed (Unless there's some role that I'm unaware of that might benefit from that? Even an immune role in the scum probably would only wanna draw attention to themselves if someone else was getting caught.*), so if someone can clear up how a Serial Killer works/if I'd know if I am one, I'd be down for voting myself to keep us from being killed every night.

*This gives me an idea that perhaps we were going to hit another scum, before Nikose tried to draw attention to himself?


Re: Bookworm: I was incredibly disappointed that your first three lines weren't a haiku. One syllable off, man.

[IHateMakingNames]

Unvote: Bard the 5th LW

Okay guys, I'm going to try to help us all out here.

FIRST: After the events of the most recent game (in which I hosted), why the hell does anyone think it's a good idea to bandwagon Smarty, of all people, the guy who has a known history of acting suspiciously scummy early in the game even as town, therefore constituting an easy lynch for Scum to jump on without looking Scummy.

Like are we even trying here?
Because if we're not going to actually try to win, then I can just stop trying to actually play the game and goof off if you'd like.

Don't get me wrong. There is a chance that Smarty is Scum or Cult. It's Day One. I don't know jack ****. But I'm sure as hell not allowing a bandwagon to readily form on the one guy I know for a fact who's going to easily get bandwagoned even if he's Town. That is stupid.

Given that Smarty MIGHT be scum but also has a KNOWN HISTORY of acting scummy and being an easy target even if town, the logical things for us to do is:
* Scanning roles should attempt to scan him before we lynch him.
* Information gathering roles should attempt to gather information on him before we lynch him.

The thing is, we got plenty of time to make an educated, informed decision on Smarty. The problem is that his D1 behavior is not going to tell us jack **** as to whether he's Scum or not because of the way Smarty acts and interacts in this game. Yes, that style of play technically works to Smarty's advantage if he's scum. But we're stuck with him, for better or for worse.

Everyone bandwagoning Smarty looks terrible, Scum or Town, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for playing terribly.

SECOND: "He was scum in the last game, therefore I can't trust him in this game" and "He was Scum in the last game, therefore it's more logically likely that he's Town in this game" are both terrifyingly bad arguments, even for D1. If I see even the slightest hint you're going to make that argument, I swear to Celestia I will curb-stomp something.

THIRD: Scum benefits in D1 if they can avoid making posts with actual content and can instead rely on the inherently confusing lack of knowledge in D1 to make 'joke posts' and 'joke votes' that 'randomly' result in the elimination of a Townie.
Therefore, let's not allow 'joke votes' based on flimsy logic to happen.
Cast suspicion now, but save your votes for legitimate stuff. Don't vote based on hunches or, if you're suddenly inactive for any reason your vote will stand on record and be counted and you may end up killing a Townie based on a Pinkie Pie style hunch.

And unfortunately, none of us are as eerily accurate as Pinkie Pie.

That's right your jerks I'm actually going to try to play this game right, you're stuck with me taking this **** 'too seriously' until you decide to vote me off because you happen to enjoy losing and playing the game dumb.

FOURTH: I would rather like some clarity as to whether or not the 'Friendshipping the Hell out of' stuff actually counts as a vote, it's anti-town for that to be left ambiguous because then someone could waltz in, 'Friendship the Hell' out of a Townie and then defend his decision based on the faulty premise that he assumed doing so was equivalent of an FoS and not a Vote.

FIFTH: Fenris you are seriously going to regret inserting me into this game based entirely on Nikose wanting me in this game. Look at these walls of text. This isn't how NPF plays Mafia!

SIXTH: Nikose if you are Scum, you are going to regret arbitrarily inserting me into this game.

The only reason that there is "no evidence to go on" is apparently that everyone on NPF has decided that it's totally cool to play an utterly uneventful and lazy D1 in which pressure is rarely if ever logically applied, claims are never asked for before lynches, and Scum can easily ensure a Town death because they're the only ones with the slightest idea of what's going on.

I've played Mafia on other Boards.
In other communities, D1 can lead to legitimate questions being asked and pertinent information being deciphered merely by asking for justification of actions.
If nothing else, EVEN IF a Townie is eliminated on D1, if you pressure folks on D1 you'll have evidence from D1 that you can reflect on during D2. Knowing the reasoning behind why Person X voted for Person Y will help you later justify whether that person was acting rationally as a Townie at the time or if he was totally scummy.

Really, there is only one reason for you to be eager to vote off anyone who's trying to take the game seriously, and that's because you're an Anti-Town role who will directly benefit from indirectly discouraging Townies from taking the game seriously lest they become a target the minute they start demanding that people act intelligently.

And I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I don't care if he's Scum or Town or what, gunning after Smarty for acting "weird" on D1 is just about the worst play you could possibly make because it's a Null-tell. You should expect Smarty to act weird and draw attention to himself D1 because that is what he does, and he would do the same whether he's Scum or Town.

Stop playing the game in such a way that rewards inactivity and discourages intelligence and maybe we can actually win for a change.

Zoom zoom zoom zoom zoom

Vote: Nikose

Because I <3 you.

...No, actually because predicting potential Mafia night kills without the context of power role knowledge is, believe it or not, a tried and true Scum strategy.
...Town, generally speaking, is far more worried about who to lynch than worrying about who may (or may not) die N1. Predicting the activity of what Scum will do, particularly on D1, is an absolute exercise of futility for Town.

Scum, however, benefits by making a prediction that someone will die N1 and then not killing that person N1. If townies eventually collectively buy into a repeated notion that "Snake (or anyone else), if he is Town, will die tonight because X," scum will easily yet subtly guide Town into a mislynch. If Nik is scum his entire ploy would therefore be: "I'll establish I believe that Snake is almost certainly Town now, then express abject disbelief as he continues to survive (all the while knowing he's alive because we're not targeting him), paint a bullseye on his back and let others deal the deathblows."

Also, the problem with Nik's posts is that his lack of elaboration prevents any of us from knowing whether he's actually being serious in anything he types or joking. Which, again, is a vagueness strategy that benefits Scum. Nik could totally play off any comment he makes as "Nik being Nik." I'd rather not spend the whole game questioning the sincerity of every one-sentence statement he makes.

NOTE: Even in typing this I am aware of the likelihood that I am overestimating the crap out of Nikose, and out of everyone playing this game. Assuming Nikose of all people would be playing intelligently and making such gambits as scum is kind of like assuming that a monkey could write a Shakespearean play. (Which, if you're Smarty, is apparently quite easy to believe.)
Nonetheless, I'm sticking by my guns and also suggesting to you all that I think Town Nik would be much more talkative than this; I think there's a greater probability Scum Nik would feel a sense of responsibility towards his teammates and subsequently tone down his usually chatty behavior to benefit his team.

As Town 'Nilla, Nik would totally like be "I AM CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE YOU PUNKS," and he'd create some controversy. I know you Nik! You would!

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/pinkietalks.gif

Vote: Nikose

[Sifright]

Woosh woosh wooo bam
This is a perfect reason to vote for Nikose.

Unvote: Bard

Vote:Nikose

Edit: I actually voted for nikose because it's true speculating on killing a person is a very scummy thing to do.

[Solid Snake]

Vote: Nikose

TRAPPED
Unvote: Nikose
Vote: IHateMakingNames

...You fell for the trap AND you didn't even give any independent reasoning for voting Nikose beyond merely falling for the trap, even when you've quoted me ranting and raving about how much I hate people voting and not justifying their votes with reasons! And worst of all you're constantly abusing Pinkie Pie GIFs and everyone knows you can't do that with Snake around, Snake owns the intellectual property of those damn GIFs

EDIT: Dammit Sifright I can't vote for IHMN *and* you

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Either Snake has some type Jester role or he is batshit insane.

[Geminex]

Smarty
hey smarty

When we talk to you this is what we feel like all the time

Also, I'm gonna follow my hunch and assume that bookie's got scummy ulterior motives.

Vote: Bookworm

[Sifright]

... I get the distinct impression Snake is mafia and is trying act like pinkie pie to remove suspicion either that or he's just plain nuts.

HOS: Snake

[Solid Snake]

Either Snake has some type Jester role or he is batshit insane.

Or I am playing the game at a level of intimate understanding and utmost intelligence you can not possibly comprehend

I'll spell it out for you.
I made up a bullcrap case against Nikose but clothed it in enough official-sounding smart words so as to attempt to deceive scum into bandwagoning him

Of course scum won't dare give any information when bandwagoning someone they know is Town. So if Nik is Town, odds are strong that at least one of IHMN / Sifright is Scum / Cult. (If Nik actually happens to be scum, which is not impossible, my strategy has also revealed that we now know that Sifright and IHMN are not on his scumteam, assuming that Scumteam doesn't include a genius who's completely seen through my strategy. No scumteam's going to vote a scummate out on a bandwagon when it's not remotely necessary on D1.)

Smarty nearly derailed my efforts with his attempts to point out the flaws in my original argument. Given that, I'm shocked the gambit actually worked. See how much we can learn D1 if we actually play the game?

Also: Pay attention to who unvotes Nik first. Oops! Now they've read this so maybe they won't unvote Nik for fear of what it means.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Like I would be tempted to lynch Snake just so I don'thave to read his insane theories anymore.
But I want to give him another day.
I'm sticking with Fawlcopter.
What is your reasoning for bookie Gem?

Also I'm not insane, I'm special :(

[Solid Snake]

Like I would be tempted to lynch Snake

...Or you're tempted to lynch Snake because you're scum and threatened by my ultra-awesome sexy gambits
HOS: Smarty

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Ninjaed by Snake- your gambit makes no sense. People wil vote because it's day 1 and they need someone to vote and its basically a straight guess. People are voting Nikose simply to mess with you and your insane gambit because its funny. Or they just simply wanted a name and the reason doesn't matter
Like the people who voted Nikose might be scum but your "gambit" doesn't prove that at all. All it proves is that you are insane.

[rpgdemon]

I was right about something? I was right about something! I even told y'all time and time again not to bandwagon, since it's how the scum won last time!

For me, something about Hawk feels decidedly scummy, but I feel bad voting for him day one since he's new. But at the same time, that's the reason why I feel like he's scummy, since he's all, "Well, I'm town! Towning it up! I just have a reason the scum won't target me now, since it's mean to do so! But town won't vote for me, since I'm town."

It feels like he's setting himself up with an excuse, "Oh, they must not have killed me since I'm new.", and not really defending himself aside from, "I'm town, and thus have nothing to fear from a lynch."

Can I make a request that, before the day ends, when we lynch someone, if it's absolutely clear they're going to be lynched, we ask them to give whatever information they have (Regarding scum/not scum. Not regarding roles), and their top hits? That way, if we accidentally go for an informant, we'll know at least who is probably scum/probably safe.

This is assuming that when someone dies, we find out their role, like in Snake's game. I dunno if that's a constant in Mafia, or just in his.

[rpgdemon]

Also, what the heck is a jester role? Cause chaos, and win?

[Solid Snake]

Ninjaed by Snake- your gambit makes no sense. People wil vote because it's day 1 and they need someone to vote and its basically a straight guess. People are voting Nikose simply to mess with you and your insane gambit because its funny. Or they just simply wanted a name and the reason doesn't matter
Like the people who voted Nikose might be scum but your "gambit" doesn't prove that at all. All it proves is that you are insane.

D1 is normally a crapshoot.
I'm just trying to give the crapshoot better odds of not being a crapshoot.

I mean I don't understand your point. I'm providing additional contextual information that will be useful in future days even if, say, Nik flips scum, or IHMN flips Town, or Sifright flips Town. Merely seeing that Sifright and IHMN were willing to bandwagon Nik means something. My primary goal is to catch scum and determine who may be Town, and that's what I'm doing. Nothing we do in D1 is going to lead us to immediately determine with 100% accuracy who's scum and who's town, but everything we do in D1 can make a seismic difference in future days.

If Nik flips scum, I'll feel much more comfortable believing IHMN and Sifright are Town.
If Nik flips Town, I'll feel reasonably convinced of the likelihood that at least one of IHMN and/or Sifright was scum and trying to push a possible bandwagon.
If IHMN flips Town, I'll feel it's more likely that Sifright's scum, and vice-versa, unless Nik flips Scum.

Or maybe I just want to act so unpredictably loony that Scum feels comfortable leaving me alive N1! WHO KNOWS

[IHateMakingNames]

TRAPPED
Unvote: Nikose
Vote: IHateMakingNames

...You fell for the trap AND you didn't even give any independent reasoning for voting Nikose beyond merely falling for the trap, even when you've quoted me ranting and raving about how much I hate people voting and not justifying their votes with reasons!
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/Fluttershy.gif

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm drinking the crazy Kool-Aid.
Unvote: Fawcopter
Vote: IHMN
I don't agree with your reasoning and think there are problems with it but to be honest I don't have a better plan and nobody else has a better plan.
So I'll jump aboard the Snaketrain...ohhhyeah.
Oh god what am I doing?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Okay this is beginning to lose coherency.

Anyways, Hawk gives me an odd vibe because of his weird pseudo presence, but he might just be new or busy so I dunno. However, Snake flipping right around on his head sorta gives him an odd feel to, like what if he's the Jester (whatever that means) like Smarty accused? Also, IHMN seems just flippant enough to get me suspicious.

HOS: Hawk, Snake, and IHMN

Fawfulcopter, like I said, seems to really just be a buffer for whatever side he is on. If we kill him, and he's townie, we don't lose anything besides an extra number. Like, if he's a power role, then I doubt he would have been much use either. The gamble is whether he is fodder for Town, or Scum. Or Cult, whatever that means in the context here.

Vote: IHMN

Something about the gifs makes me suspicious, not Snake's reasoning.

[Solid Snake]

Goddammit every time an immediate bandwagon starts on someone I've just voted for it is so freaking suspicious
It is most suspicious coming from the guy who just sounded like he completely had absolutely and utterly no respect for the way I was playing the game, though
Like how can you simultaneously as Town come to the conclusion that "Snake is utterly insane and/or scum and I'm going to believe him anyway"

HOS: Smarty

Still keeping my vote on IHMN because I want to hear something of actual substance from him and maybe he'll start taking things seriously if he feels the pressure

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Jester has multiple possible conditions-
Usually it's there job to get lynched day 1.
Alternatively they can need to change vote every post, need to get the town to novote or need to get a specific player or players lynched onc ertain days.
Personally I think he needs to get lynched day 1. But I'm totally curious that's why I'm following him for now That or he has broke my mind.

[Bard The 5th LW]

What happens if the Jester fails to meet the condition assigned to him?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Ninjaed by snake- I came to that conclusion becuase I'm sensible and not in whatever backwards logic land you live in?

[IHateMakingNames]

Vote: IHMN
HOS: Hawk, Snake, and IHMN
...
Vote: IHMN
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/830px-Sadpinkie.png

[Fenris]

I think this is right Vote count:

Smarty McB 1
Nikose

Snake
Karesh
Ramary
Aldurin

Ramary
Gregness

rpgdemon
Hawk

Nikose
IHMN
Sifright

IHMN
Snake
SMcB
Bard

Bookworm
Geminex

12 to lynch, deadline Thursday afternoon.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

IHMN, are you going to keep just posting pictures and gifs? Because if so I'mgoing to pull to lynch you no matter what if simply to stop the ridiculous ponification.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Wow this freaking spiraled out of my ability to keep up to date lickity split.
I see the logic behind Snake's actions but it seems to be a bit too callous of a trap. If IHMN is voted off we'll never see him respond to a quote with just a .gif again.
It won't be the same, even if someone steps up to the plate and starts imitating. There can be only one and for this game it seems to be IHMN.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also what episode was this one from?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/pinkietalks.gif

[rpgdemon]

If IHMN flips Town, I'll feel it's more likely that Sifright's scum, and vice-versa, unless Nik flips Scum.

Faulty logic. That's the gambler's fallacy. If, let's say, they both have a 50% chance of being scum, the fact that one isn't scum doesn't mean that the other is, nor does it increase the odds that the other is.


I propose that, until Day 1 is over, we don't listen to Snake. Just ignore him. After that, he can do whatever he wants, we can do whatever we want, but if he wants a Day 1 lynch to himself, or someone else, we shouldn't give it to him. (I'm assuming Jester's win means the town loses? Or is it just a separate win?)

Right now, all he's doing is keeping people from voting properly, and keeping things incredibly disorganized, making it impossible to pin anyone down as scum. Really, from all his ravings, voting has gone haywire, and the scum now have a huge haven to hide with, because of all the double mobius reacharounds and Xanatos Gambits flying everywhere.

If he is really trying to be helpful, then he's suffering from a severe case of fancy play syndrome. It's what happens, for example, in Magic (For those that play the game), when you attack your weak guy into a more powerful blocker, with mana available and cards in hand. Against an opponent who plays well, they might be bluffed into not blocking, as they don't want to risk some sort of trick. Against a new player, they'll block every time, since they don't even consider the combat trick, and they'll laugh at you for playing stupidly.

If he's trying to be helpful, Snake is the guy that attempted a bluff, that the new player was too inexperienced to read. Meaning, whatever he's doing, he's being fancy and neat with it, and it's going way over the heads of the town and actually actively hurting it. The scum now has a huge hive to hide in, and Snake will say anyone who votes AT ALL is scum, since "Nope, I accused them! Hah! I can't believe it! You fell for the trap again! Man! Again! Look, I caught every scum with the same trap four times!"

[rpgdemon]

PS: Would someone please tell me what being Serial Killer would mean? It's a lead that we have, and if I'm an unknown/passive scummy role, just take me out for the day, so that Snake definitely won't get his Jestery kill, if that's his angle.

Until further notice, I'mma go ahead and
vote: RPGDemon

Town victory still counts when you're dead?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Faulty logic. That's the gambler's fallacy. If, let's say, they both have a 50% chance of being scum, the fact that one isn't scum doesn't mean that the other is, nor does it increase the odds that the other is.


I propose that, until Day 1 is over, we don't listen to Snake. Just ignore him. After that, he can do whatever he wants, we can do whatever we want, but if he wants a Day 1 lynch to himself, or someone else, we shouldn't give it to him. (I'm assuming Jester's win means the town loses? Or is it just a separate win?)

Right now, all he's doing is keeping people from voting properly, and keeping things incredibly disorganized, making it impossible to pin anyone down as scum. Really, from all his ravings, voting has gone haywire, and the scum now have a huge haven to hide with, because of all the double mobius reacharounds and Xanatos Gambits flying everywhere.

If he is really trying to be helpful, then he's suffering from a severe case of fancy play syndrome. It's what happens, for example, in Magic (For those that play the game), when you attack your weak guy into a more powerful blocker, with mana available and cards in hand. Against an opponent who plays well, they might be bluffed into not blocking, as they don't want to risk some sort of trick. Against a new player, they'll block every time, since they don't even consider the combat trick, and they'll laugh at you for playing stupidly.

If he's trying to be helpful, Snake is the guy that attempted a bluff, that the new player was too inexperienced to read. Meaning, whatever he's doing, he's being fancy and neat with it, and it's going way over the heads of the town and actually actively hurting it. The scum now has a huge hive to hide in, and Snake will say anyone who votes AT ALL is scum, since "Nope, I accused them! Hah! I can't believe it! You fell for the trap again! Man! Again! Look, I caught every scum with the same trap four times!"

Unvote: Snake

FTHOO: rpgdemon

Fuck MTG.
Friendship is magic.

[Solid Snake]

Until further notice, I'mma go ahead and
vote: RPGDemon


...
...You were doing so relatively decently with your logic in criticizing me, like seriously yours was the first criticism of me that actually made me do a double take and say "...Huh..."

...and then you did this.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

But "fancy play syndrome" doesn't work unless Snake was playing really simplistic robots who took the most straightforward action to their goal. Like I know I'm a chatbotbut I don't think the rest are.
To be honest I think Snake has to be too smart for that so I'm sure he has some kind of crazy role which is why I'm humouring him- working out whether his role is good or bad for town could be useful and by going along with him we might do that.
But you have a point- if he is a jester of somekind his day 2 actions might calm do so let's just ignore him.
Unvote: IHMN
Vote: Falfcopter
Let's aim for the null!
I totally want to here from Gem his reasons for Bookie but that's mostlybecause I always suspect Bookie of being scum every game so I'm not particularly objective on that front.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Actually Serial Killer is a decidedly not Town role. The mail you received from Fenris would have almost certainly pointed this out to you. Without question, it would have been in the format of

Role: Serial Killer. Alignment: Yourself.
or something to that effect.

[IHateMakingNames]

Also what episode was this one from?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/gilda.png

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Wait wait wait, RPG voted for himself? And brings up Serial Killer from nowhere?
But if he was Serial Killer he doesn't have town victory.
RPG want to explain yourself?
Why do you want to be voted off. And where the fuck did the SK suggestion come from?
"And it's possible that I'm a passive/scummy role" and then asking what the SK does..
You are reeking of scum and as a SK
HOS: RPGdemonm
Until we get another post from him.
Also if someone wants to checkthrough RPGposts that would be good. I've got to cook me some dinner.

[rpgdemon]

Ah, screw that then.

unvote: RPGDemon

Incidentally, is there any town-aligned role that can cause detriment to the town without that player's knowledge?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Re: Bookworm: I was incredibly disappointed that your first three lines weren't a haiku. One syllable off, man.

It's 5-7-5 man I am deep within the Haiku zone.

TRAPPED


...You fell for the trap AND you didn't even give any independent reasoning for voting Nikose beyond merely falling for the trap, even when you've quoted me ranting and raving about how much I hate people voting and not justifying their votes with reasons! And worst of all you're constantly abusing Pinkie Pie GIFs and everyone knows you can't do that with Snake around, Snake owns the intellectual property of those damn GIFs

I buh wah Jesus fuck Snake

Also, I'm gonna follow my hunch and assume that bookie's got scummy ulterior motives.

Vote: Bookworm

http://img.ponibooru.org/images/f2/f2e609c93da66a326071ffa79ea92c11

Very good, Mr. Geminex. Very good. You have deciphered my plot. But it is too late to stop me now. Soon the death ray will be activated. First Equestria, then the world.

I made up a bullcrap case against Nikose but clothed it in enough official-sounding smart words so as to attempt to deceive scum into bandwagoning him

Uh, Snake, there is a legitimate case against Nikose, since he was pretty clearly lying about something.

PS: Would someone please tell me what being Serial Killer would mean? It's a lead that we have, and if I'm an unknown/passive scummy role, just take me out for the day, so that Snake definitely won't get his Jestery kill, if that's his angle.

The SK is self-aligned meaning that he is trying to kill off both the Mafia and Town to win. They can kill one person a Night.

If you're thinking "Holy shitbricks, that sounds hard" then yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of the SK actually winning a Mafia game.

[rpgdemon]

Alduin was culted night 0.

RPG is serial Killer.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

^Explaining myself.

I was remembering last game, where after a faulty accusation, the town were all, "WE'RE GONNA KILL YOU IF YOU'RE WRONG.". I figured no one would make an accusation that would prove to be wrong on Day 1, and assumed that serial killer was a role you didn't know you had. I made a guess by the name that it meant townies would die until you were stopped.

[rpgdemon]

It's 5-7-5 man I am deep within the Haiku zone.

Only if you pronounce revealed re-veal-ed. I give it two syllables.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

^Explaining myself.

I was remembering last game, where after a faulty accusation, the town were all, "WE'RE GONNA KILL YOU IF YOU'RE WRONG.". I figured no one would make an accusation that would prove to be wrong on Day 1, and assumed that serial killer was a role you didn't know you had. I made a guess by the name that it meant townies would die until you were stopped.

It's entirely likely Nikose was joking in that instance.

A serial killer is an individual role, no loyalty to anyone else in the town or any other faction. Every night he/she kills one individual of the Serial Killer's choice.
The serial killer gains victory when he/she is the only one remaining alive.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Only if you pronounce revealed re-veal-ed. I give it two syllables.

I also pronounce laboratory with five syllables so yeah, I guess so.

[Bard The 5th LW]

RPG stop killing yourself, its not the answer... unless you want to divert suspicion by putting yourself on the chopping block! Is that your angle?

I'm sticking with IHMN just on principle of making him shut up with the images now.

[Solid Snake]

It's entirely likely Nikose was joking in that instance.


The Night 0 insinuation (or at least the notion that a 'Night 0' could exist or whatever) was actually kind of sort of...out of place.
And, Nik definitely was not acting like his usual self. I mean, I sort of was serious about that part of the argument.

Nik actually alleviated my concerns on that front by not changing his habits thereafter and responding with the same degree of jest (if only because Scum would've felt pressured at that moment and possibly felt the need to proffer a serious defense and/or revert back to his more 'typical' or 'expected' brand of arrogant self-aggrandizing behavior.)

But you see, the entirety of my argument wasn't based on the Night 0 thing, which you can sort of make some sort of claim regarding, I suppose (though I still think it's entirely likely Nik is shooting the breeze for grins and giggles.) It was based on the notion that Nik was setting me up for a fall based on predicting I'd die N1.

And if you look at the logic, it's kind of flawed. Not only was Nik not ultimately the only person who predicted I'd die N1 (and two scummates wouldn't out themselves by making the same prediction), far more importantly, my argument against Nik included leaps of logic.

Mind you, I wouldn't have shouted "TRAPPED!" if IHMN and Sifright, say, voted for Nik, but then actually justified their votes for Nik, and maybe threw in something self-aware like "Snake's case against Nik isn't totally convincing as I think he's over-analyzing things, but Nik also did X and Y and Z and that smells scummy."

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Instead, they both bandwagoned Nik will providing no evidence aside from reposting my own arguments. That is a scum strategy. Doesn't mean both IHMN and Sifright are scum, probably means at least one is scum, definitely is a better hunch than anything else I have to go off D1.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The SK is self-aligned meaning that he is trying to kill off both the Mafia and Town to win. They can kill one person a Night.

If you're thinking "Holy shitbricks, that sounds hard" then yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of the SK actually winning a Mafia game.

I've done it. It was awesome.


As for Snake's IHMN and Sif argument, the problem is that's not how mafia would act day 1 even if they were acting as obvious as you think. The mafia behaving as you suggest would finish off a bandwagon, not be like the 2nd and 3rd members on. The 2nd and 3rd members on a bandwagon need to provide additional information, the 6th and 7th say do not need to.
If the mafia were looking to do what you say, they would wait for additional members to get on the bandwagon, the 2nd and 3rd positions on the bandwagon are too obvious.

[rpgdemon]

Unvote: Snake

FTHOO: rpgdemon

Fuck MTG.
Friendship is magic.

Incidentally, I was gonna use Poker (All but one card of a straight on the table in Texas Hold'em, the new player keeps his pair of aces, since he doesn't see it), but then I thought Magic would be a better example.

And, hey, you play Magic with your friends. Friendship is Magic.

[Sifright]

I've written four posts and then not posted due to people posting in the mean time, but snakes assertions that one of either myself or IHMN being a scum is pretty silly you have nothing to base it on and if you are really as knowledgeable about the game as you say thats a scum move to convince the town to lynch the other player when it's found out the one they first lynched was town.

[Mr.Bookworm]

The Night 0 insinuation (or at least the notion that a 'Night 0' could exist or whatever) was actually kind of sort of...out of place.
And, Nik definitely was not acting like his usual self. I mean, I sort of was serious about that part of the argument.

Nik actually alleviated my concerns on that front by not changing his habits thereafter and responding with the same degree of jest (if only because Scum would've felt pressured at that moment and possibly felt the need to proffer a serious defense and/or revert back to his more 'typical' or 'expected' brand of arrogant self-aggrandizing behavior.)

But you see, the entirety of my argument wasn't based on the Night 0 thing, which you can sort of make some sort of claim regarding, I suppose (though I still think it's entirely likely Nik is shooting the breeze for grins and giggles.) It was based on the notion that Nik was setting me up for a fall based on predicting I'd die N1.

And if you look at the logic, it's kind of flawed. Not only was Nik not ultimately the only person who predicted I'd die N1 (and two scummates wouldn't out themselves by making the same prediction), far more importantly, my argument against Nik included leaps of logic.

Mind you, I wouldn't have shouted "TRAPPED!" if IHMN and Sifright, say, voted for Nik, but then actually justified their votes for Nik, and maybe threw in something self-aware like "Snake's case against Nik isn't totally convincing as I think he's over-analyzing things, but Nik also did X and Y and Z and that smells scummy."

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Instead, they both bandwagoned Nik will providing no evidence aside from reposting my own arguments. That is a scum strategy. Doesn't mean both IHMN and Sifright are scum, probably means at least one is scum, definitely is a better hunch than anything else I have to go off D1.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l540/swifter2/dsadsa/Twilight-oo.gif

[Solid Snake]

Why the hell is it that so many people like think I am absolutely incapable of logic
Apparently according to you all I should just never post anything again
So, uhh...
I'll take a break
At least for now because I have a three-hour International Law class to look attend. =/

[Mr.Bookworm]

Oh no you are completely and totally capable of logic

It's just that reading your posts is a somewhat similar experience to that of a nun slapping you in the face with a fish if you were a nun and the fish were words.

[Geminex]

To elaborate on my Bookworm-hunch, he was the first to accuse smarty without much justification, and then encouraged people to jump on the 'bandwagon'. When I said that looked suspcicious, he unvoted smarty two posts later. That too much to go on?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Fuck it enough for me on day 1. especially with deadlineapproaching.
Unvote: FailCopter
Vote: Bookie

[Sifright]

Seriously? Deadline approaching? it's not until bloody thursday

[Geminex]

Right.
ALSO.
I mentioned the game on the Chat, and the following conversation ensued:
(23:58:11) ChatBot: Geminex logs into the Chat.
(23:58:18) Geminex: Sup.
(23:58:25) Geminex: Hey, Smarty. Check the mafia thread.
(23:58:27) Smarty_McBarrelp: Sup. Cracker.
(23:58:34) Smarty_McBarrelp: Why did you show your cock?
(23:58:48) Geminex: No, I only show that on weekends.
(23:58:56) Geminex: If you ask nicely.
(23:59:05) Sifright: You guys
(23:59:09) Sifright: HOF
(23:59:13) Sifright: HOS
(23:59:15) Sifright: even
(23:59:18) Sifright: HOS all over you
(23:59:22) Geminex: No, I explained my bookworm-suspicions and I'd be interested to know what you think
(23:59:25) Geminex: What'd I do?
(23:59:34) Sifright: well alright not you
(23:59:38) Sifright: :)
(23:59:51) Sifright: but god damn Snake.
(23:59:51) Geminex: : D
(23:59:57) Geminex: Snake is being snake.
(00:00:08) Geminex: Though he's being a lot more snakey than I would have thought.
(00:00:15) Geminex: BUT
(00:00:22) Geminex: We're not allowed to talk about that in private
(00:00:24) Sifright: him posting walls of text like this is a sign of tension and nerves
(00:00:26) Sifright: true
(00:00:35) Geminex: I just wanted to tell smarty to check the thread (00:00:54) Geminex: In fact, gonna edit this into my post so it's public. (00:01:06) Geminex: That cool with everyone?
(00:01:15) Sifright: I don't want to post that though because it could come across as an attack on him personally
(00:01:24) Sifright: and i think snakes a pretty cool guy so eh...
(00:01:32) Smarty_McBarrelp: He has a tinypenis
(00:01:36) Geminex: Well you just cleared up the misunderstanding.
I'll refrain from mentioning it on chat again. Nothing important here, but just thought it'd be good to keep things public.
I'd also like to know how Smarty knows about Snake's penis.

[Mr.Bookworm]

To elaborate on my Bookworm-hunch, he was the first to accuse smarty without much justification,

Yes, that is something you do on Day 1.

and then encouraged people to jump on the 'bandwagon'.

http://www.baka-raptor.com/porn/thats_the_joke.jpg

When I said that looked suspcicious, he unvoted smarty two posts later. That too much to go on?

Yeah, no. (http://nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1156617#post1156617)

You didn't actually say that and I clearly wasn't unvoting in response to you.

You will also note the clear tonal shift to SRSPONY in my post, thus explaining the unvote of Smarty, which was a joke vote in the first place.

Your last post was five posts before (http://nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1156596&postcount=96), and had nothing to do with the subject matter you claim it did.

HoS: Geminex

[Mr.Bookworm]

Excuse me, you did post something (seven posts earlier) (http://nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1156596#post1156596), but given that I didn't quote you or otherwise respond to you, I'm not seeing how that can be construed as me being suspicious. Also, as my previous post pretty clearly shows, I had no idea that you had posted that until I looked into the backlog of the thread.

[Geminex]

Yes, that is something you do on Day 1.
True enough. Random voting is fine. But you started by randomly going for Oron and then switched to smarty because... he voted randomly? Seems kinda weird,

As for the 'joke', I'm not sure I get it. You encouraged people to vote for Smarty, despite the fact that you had minimal evidence to go on regarding his scumminess. Again, random voting, fine. Randomly encouraging the lynching of a random guy? Scummy.

I'm not seeing where you said that looked suspicious, and even if you did, I clearly wasn't unvoting in response to you.
As for this, well. You didn't seem to be unvoting in order to vote for someone else. You had just said you didn't have enough info on Nikose. And not much info on Smarty had come up in between that post and your last post. So why unvote him then, of all times? Acting 'randomly' again? Sure. Maybe. But your random unvoting came not long after I pointed out that your eagerness to get him lynched was suspicious.

Edit:
Excuse me, you did post something (seven posts earlier), but given that I didn't quote you or otherwise respond to you, I'm not seeing how that can be construed as me being suspicious. Also, as my previous post pretty clearly shows, I had no idea that you had posted that until I looked into the backlog of the thread.

Yes, seven posts, not two. Sorry bout that. And no, you didn't respond. But fact is, I pointed out that you were suspicious by acting in a certain way (trying to get smarty lynched), and not long after, you stopped acting that way. It may well just be a coincidence!
But given that it's day one, I think it's sufficient to vote for you. Nothing personal or anything.

Also, if you can prove that you hadn't seen my post, that'll be cool, but until then, all that your post 'pretty clearly shows' is you acting like you hadn't seen it. Whether you'd actually seen it is yours to know and ours to suspect.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

For me, something about Hawk feels decidedly scummy, but I feel bad voting for him day one since he's new. But at the same time, that's the reason why I feel like he's scummy, since he's all, "Well, I'm town! Towning it up! I just have a reason the scum won't target me now, since it's mean to do so! But town won't vote for me, since I'm town."

It feels like he's setting himself up with an excuse, "Oh, they must not have killed me since I'm new.", and not really defending himself aside from, "I'm town, and thus have nothing to fear from a lynch."

Meh, maybe I am running abit too much towards the sympathy vote right now, but that's only because being lynched/killed night one would suck balls, and I do actually want to stick around long enough to learn the ins and outs of the game. I have no illusions of suriving to the end, hell I'll probably be killed off before I get halfway, but I atleast want a chance to, yano, actually play the game a bit before that happens. I can't really do much else to defend myself right now, I've only made 2 votes, 1 a joke and the other a genuine concern over a suspicious plan that you put forth, and I've stuck with it since. I seem to recall your defence to that was to simply post a youtube video that didn't explain anything.

The only other things I've done is ask questions about the game and try to wrap my head around all these backwards arguments, but none of them have done much to convince me of anything right now. What more can I do to defend myself?



Anyways, Hawk gives me an odd vibe because of his weird pseudo presence, but he might just be new or busy so I dunno. However, Snake flipping right around on his head sorta gives him an odd feel to, like what if he's the Jester (whatever that means) like Smarty accused? Also, IHMN seems just flippant enough to get me suspicious.

HOS: Hawk, Snake, and IHMN


You're suspicious of me for... what, not posting on every page in the thread? Or not posting every other post like some people? What?! I do actually have stuff to do in the day man. There are people who haven't posted at all, or posted only once, what about their pseudo presence?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Friendship the Hell Out of: Solid Snake

he knows what he did

First I joke voted for Snake.

Vote: Oron
For being suspiciously quiet. I'm working my up the list because going down lists is what communists do.

Then Smarty posted this.

Oh man something is clearly just the fuck up with Smarty.

Offer whimsical night of trotting and magic as apology to: Solid Snake

Friendship the hell out of: Smarty McBarrelpants

So I joke voted for him!

FRIENDSHIPPING THE HELL OUT OF: Smarty

Because
a) he isn't one of the herd and
b) I'm pretty sure smarty breaks things.

UNFRIENDSHIPPING: BARD

VOTE: SMARTY

BITCHES I DON'T NEED REASONS IT'S DAY 1.

Good job, ponies, we got a nice bandwagon going on here, let's keep it rolling forward.

A bunch of people (including Geminex!) voted for Smarty right after I did, so I made a joke about jumping on the bandwagon.

Alduin was culted night 0.

RPG is serial Killer.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

Nikose then made this incredibly suspicious post, so...

Nikose's post is such a blatantly obvious lie that I have no idea what he's going for.

He could be a lynch-blocker of some sort for the scum, trying to get us to waste a lynch on him.

He could be a Jester trying to win. I had that role, once, and I did something similar.

He could just be stupid.

Not enough data, unfortunately.

At any rate, Unvote: Smarty McBarrelpants.

...I got vaguely serious and rescinded my joke vote.

Bookworm, outta curiosity.
Why unvote smarty all of a sudden?

I was not doing the SRSBIDNESS mafia thing when I voted for him. I might revote for him if I decide he's acting scummy, but I don't think he is right now.

Hell, we even had that exact conversation earlier in the thread.

[Geminex]

So why not vote for Nikose right away? If you suspected him, that'd be the logical thing to do. But you suspect Nikose enough to unvote smarty, but not enough to vote for him? Seems weird. And, again, you did it right after I said it made you look suspicious.

A bunch of people (including Geminex!) voted for Smarty right after I did, so I made a joke about jumping on the bandwagon.
As for this, yes, maybe a joke. But maybe an encouragement for other people to lynch smarty. Seems like a bit of both to me, which, again, begs the question, why would a townie encourage the lynching of a random guy? Even jokingly?

[Mr.Bookworm]

So why not vote for Nikose right away? If you suspected him, that'd be the logical thing to do. Yet you suspect him enough to unvote smarty, but not enough to vote for Nikose. And, again, you did it right after I said it made you look suspicious.

As I pointed out in my post, the possible roles I suspected are roles we don't want to lynch. I'm not going to vote for Nikose if I think he's the Jester or Lynchblocker.

And again, I unvoted Smarty because the vote was a joke, and I never intended to actually keep that vote on there. I unvoted when we started seeing things to go on, instead of just random voting.

As for this, yes, maybe a joke. But maybe an encouragement for other people to lynch smarty. Seems like a bit of both to me, which, again, begs teh question, why would a townie encourage the lynching of a random guy?

You haven't played Mafia before, right?

The people who start out leading the lynching polls on Day 1 because of whatever joke is in vogue at the time don't actually get lynched, unless they act scummy otherwise.

[Nikose Tyris]

Hahahahhaha this is the best day 1 I have ever seen

Like no word of a lie if ever a game was going to get started, 180 posts is just the right way to fuckin' do it.


I'd just like to take a moment and say how proud I am of every single one of you, and remind everyone that someone is going to die today, and then probably like 2, maybe 3 someone's tonight.

[Solid Snake]

What the fuck is up with everyone on NPF talking about me behind my back in chat, it's this constantly recurring and irritating theme and it's the whole reason why I left NPF in the fucking first place and clearly I shouldn't have come back
I can't even believe it's not against the rules to talk in chat insofar as any conversation in the chat may not be publicly broadcasted here, therefore meaning people can get away with all sorts of skeevy shit
Scum could basically convince town to kill me (or anyone else) in real-time chat with no opportunity for me to respond and I wouldn't even have a defense

[Nikose Tyris]

Actually it is against the rules to talk in the chat

Like explicitly

like people discussing game in chat get GO-Killed automatically normally. The fact Fenris hasn't is probably a product of him being busy with his composing or music classes at college, something that we all understand is very trying and takes up a lot of his time.

Once he gets on and sees it, Snake, I'm sure he's going to modkill the piss out of chat-talkers.

[Nikose Tyris]

Regardless of anything Sif, Conversation about the game, outside the game, is banned, except with other people you are mason'd with.

If the people in that chat are not people you are mason'd or Group'd with, then you should be GO-killed.

[also, my assumption if he doesn't kill you is either a 3 man masoning, or that's 3 mafiates right there, so hey, useful for exposin' yourselves.]

[Sifright]

Well i'm expecting to be mod killed so i might as well reveal my role. Townie who starts out knowing one other persons role and nothing else. Enjoy the game.

[Geminex]

Gah, we aren't allowed to talk in chat, which I why I posted the whole thing. I shouldn't even have mentioned it in the first place, and I'm really sorry I did. I kinda forgot about the whole 'private' thing. Partly because I don't think there's an official ruleset, and I'm really only going by what I've picked up from the mafia wiki. Newbie and all. -.-

Anyway, Snake, we all think you're cool, and I, for one, am sorry for having started this in the first place.

Also, Sif, no need to go around revealing your role yet, I'm hoping nobody will die for this.

Edit: I mean, is it really that bad? We said, like, 2 sentences about it and then realized we shouldn't have and then posted the entire conversation.

[Sifright]

bit late for that the only thing i haven't done is reveal my flavour text.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah, maybe we could all like, yano, wait for Fenris to get back on and decide first? Maybe a stiff warning and a removal of those peoples ability to take part in lynching/killing for a night would be sufficient?

Not saying it was right to be talking outside of the thread (it wasn't) but the conversation was posted so there's no harm done, and we'd really much prefer not to lose a bunch of people who could be townies all in 1 go.

[Solid Snake]

Gah, we aren't allowed to talk in chat, which I why I posted the whole thing publicly.

Yeah but, like, how do we know the "whole thing" has been posted publicly?
What's to stop people from chatting in the chatroom and then editing the record, or simply refusing to disclose all the information that's actually discussed there?

If people are doing it in the chatroom, how am I supposed to feel confident that people aren't doing it anywhere else, over PM, or anything like that?

All of this is completely ancillary to my frustration with the whole "Good Lord, nearly every time I either happen to chance upon the chat room and/or read a chat log on NPF I'm being insulted behind my back, if people on NPF have issues with me why can't they be honest with me about it instead of basically turning into a toxic High School gossip mill?" That's pretty frustrating too, albeit for different reasons.

But complaining aside
Feeling like throwing suspicion on RPGDemon right now, there's something about him that feels quite 'off' compared to his early Day performance in recent games.
Unfortunately the difficulty here is that it's very easy for me to be irrationally hard on those who were actually involved in Homestuck Mafia, because I'm quite familiar with that game and much less familiar with the playstyles of those who didn't play there.

Also: It is still suspicious that Bob has been around and yet is not active here. He's not one to idle and forget a commitment.

[rpgdemon]

Yeah, being so gung ho to have a big swathe of people killed is sort of against town interest. Unless they're scum.

It also seems like it could be gamed to the point where it's like, "LOOK, IN CHAT, I TALKED TO THIS DUDE, HE RESPONDED. BAM, KILL HIM.", at which point all hell breaks loose.

[Solid Snake]

Yeah, being so gung ho to have a big swathe of people killed is sort of against town interest. Unless they're scum.

It also seems like it could be gamed to the point where it's like, "LOOK, IN CHAT, I TALKED TO THIS DUDE, HE RESPONDED. BAM, KILL HIM.", at which point all hell breaks loose.

Note before this gets out of hand: I'm not the one who mentioned Modkilling as the solution.
My post merely expressed frustration. From there it sort of spiraled.
I am still frustrated about it, but it's worth noting that I did NOT Modkill anyone when a similar event happened in my game and I was Moderator, so it's not the solution I would advocate.

EDIT: Sifright, this isn't something you should leave over. If Fenris Modkills you, that's one thing, but I don't think you should quit. Making you quit was not the intention of my outburst.

[rpgdemon]

Note before this gets out of hand: I'm not the one who mentioned Modkilling as the solution.
My post merely expressed frustration. From there it sort of spiraled.
I am still frustrated about it, but it's worth noting that I did NOT Modkill anyone when a similar event happened in my game and I was Moderator, so it's not the solution I would advocate.

Didn't mean to accidentally implicate you, my post was mainly directed at Nik who seems gung ho about it.

I'd think no mod kill is in order here, since it was hardly any information. The leak of roles is unfortunate, and if they can be shuffled to handle it unobtrusively, that would be neat, but I can see it being a huge headache, especially if the role that Silfright knows is an active one, and not just a vanilla townie.

[Geminex]

Yeah but, like, how do we know the "whole thing" has been posted publicly?
What's to stop people from chatting in the chatroom and then editing the record, or simply refusing to disclose all the information that's actually discussed there?

If people are doing it in the chatroom, how am I supposed to feel confident that people aren't doing it anywhere else, over PM, or anything like that?

Okay, in regards to this? I honestly think we're all pretty good players here. That stuff's against the rules for a reason (spoils the game), and I'd be surprised if anyone was doing it with malicious intent. I responded to Sif without thinking, and I'm guessing Sif forgot? Neither of us intentionally broke the rules, and I don't think any player here is going to. Like, if the fact that two newbies forgot and broke the rule and then immediately confessed and made the conversation public is enough to break your trust in people's honesty, then you can't have had much trust in their honesty in the first place, y'know? Don't let this get to you. I won't do it again, I don't think anyone here will, and if they do and they get found out, they're dead. Hell, if Fenris wants to kill me and Sif now that'd probably be justified since we did go against the letter of the law, but we really didn't mean any harm.

All of this is completely ancillary to my frustration with the whole "Good Lord, nearly every time I either happen to chance upon the chat room and/or read a chat log on NPF I'm being insulted behind my back, if people on NPF have issues with me why can't they be honest with me about it instead of basically turning into a toxic High School gossip mill?" That's pretty frustrating too, albeit for different reasons.
I really think you're perceiving that as worse than it is. Uhm. You can certainly be a noteworthy person at times (which is, I guess, why people talk about you sometimes?), but I don't think people actually dislike you. You seem intelligent, you put thought into your arguments, and on the whole, you seem pretty allright. In the interest of honesty, I was kinda annoyed by that exchange between you and Token, that ended with him requesting a month-long-ban, but he seems cool with it, so I am too.

Anyway, uhm. I think it might be a good idea to let this rest until Fenris has had a look at the situation?

And Sif, you could always edit that post where you reveal your role.
Alternately, you could pretend it was a cunning ruse to mislead someone. Or maybe it was. We don't know.

Edit:
Also, is mafia always like this?

[rpgdemon]

Feeling like throwing suspicion on RPGDemon right now, there's something about him that feels quite 'off' compared to his early Day performance in recent games.
Unfortunately the difficulty here is that it's very easy for me to be irrationally hard on those who were actually involved in Homestuck Mafia, because I'm quite familiar with that game and much less familiar with the playstyles of those who didn't play there.

Well, I've only played that one game, and learned from it. There is literally no other recent game though. My Day 1 there was, "Well, we shouldn't kill anyone should we? We don't know anything". Not exactly something I'd like to repeat.

[Geminex]

My Day 1 there was, "Well, we shouldn't kill anyone should we? We don't know anything". Not exactly something I'd like to repeat.
Not killing anyone?
Preposterous!

[rpgdemon]

As a heads up: Editting is also disallowed, for similar reasons I assume. Or at least it was in Snake's game.

"Oh, I'll edit my post soon as X sees it. Plotting!"

It's silly, in terms of a change like you made, but it's worth mentioning. That's why I end up double posting a bunch.

[rpgdemon]

Not killing anyone?
Preposterous!

Well, here's how it played out: I was like, "Man, I dunno what to do. I'm a good guy character! He wouldn't want to kill anyone! I should just play my character!"

Then it was explained to me, no, that's not how you do it.

[Geminex]

Oh, right. Well.

Fenris, could we get a rule list of some sort? Like, to help the newbies along?

[Solid Snake]

Okay, in regards to this? I honestly think we're all pretty good players here. That stuff's against the rules for a reason (spoils the game), and I'd be surprised if anyone was doing it with malicious intent.

I think I was more gung-ho about this (still angry, but less so) when it happened in Homestuck Mafia because then I assumed it was like a one-time mistake, but this is no longer the first time I've seen this happen and threaten the integrity of the game, and although the nature of the chat conversation actually is less substantive than in Homestuck it's really the quantity of the offense / the fact that people haven't learned from their mistakes that frustrated me.

Admittingly, the unnecessarily cuss-laden nature of my response (which I will not edit out in the interests of openness) was probably as much if not more sparked by the "out of nowhere Snake comments" shit, and I probably would have been more civil in expressing my thoughts on the matter if I wasn't consumed with "Why the fuck did I come back to NPF just to play a Mafia game in which the same activity that led me to leave NPF was still occuring?" rage. But that's an unrelated issue.

In the interest of honesty, I was kinda annoyed by that exchange between you and Token, that ended with him requesting a month-long-ban, but he seems cool with it, so I am too.

I think we both went well over the line there, yeah. No disagreements there.
Honestly I was shocked I wasn't three-day or one-week banned particularly when Token was banned too (albeit, I suppose, Token requested it.)
A month seems a bit long, though.

[Geminex]

Well, I wasn't in the homestuck game, and neither was Sif (I think?) so it's kinda hard to learn from mistakes we didn't actually make, y'know?

Also, I don't know what made you leave NPF in the first place. But please believe me when I say that there were no personal attacks there. We were both just commenting on your behavior within the game, we both think you're cool. Sif even said so.

Though I still wanna know how Smarty knows how big your dick is. Did you have hypothetical celestial string-theory sex with him?

[Sifright]

I was in the Homestuck mafia game. I made a bit of a hash out of it, I was the town doctor only managed to save one dude.

[Fenris]

okay so

chat thing

nobody's getting punished, just don't do it again

and rules

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=12706

I'm partial to those, but I did kind of write a big first post with rules in it too.

[Fenris]

oh

and edit thing

fix typos and shit, but keep in mind that I am totally capable of seeing edit histories and will modkill for cheating.

[Gregness]

So, back on the topic of who to lynch. What ever happened to killing off the inactives? I mean, we agreed pretty early on that inactives are detrimental to the Town regardless of whether they're scum or not. So why are we wasting time trying to figure out who MIGHT be scum when we can get almost all positives from booting an inactive out?

[Oron]

I think the opposition to rooting out inactives is (unless I just misread everything) that we'd be lynching people who are probably town when discussing things could lead to some progress in finding scum because then we have more information. Snake wants to take Day 1 more seriously and we would be off to a stronger start Day 2.

Anyway, we've got until Thursday. Another day to talk it out before deciding on a vote later Wednesday/early Thursday.

[rpgdemon]

Killing inactives isn't all positives, it's just low negatives. There's a difference.

It doesn't gives us progress, it just keeps us from killing someone who would be good for the town to have around. And we burn a lynch.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

What?
Firstly we don't "burn a lynch", we use a lynch when no other targets are present. If we don't lynch anyone that is burning a lynch and that is about the worst thing the town can do. And we don't have unlimited time to make a decision so if no other target presents itself an inactive is a good one to go.
Why? Because a high proportion of inactives massively favour scum- they know who each other are, they can coordinate durin gthe day and don't even really nered lynches that much.
By keeping inactives you cut off the flow of information to the town by stopping discussion, you make it more likely that you are going to need to rely on scum to get lynches over the threshold and you make it easier for scum to float to the end by not getting involved in fights.

[rpgdemon]

What I meant is that voting an inactive isn't a first choice, but rather a way of minimizing damage/maybe getting a benefit if you don't know who to lynch.

It's burning a day because we're not killing anyone that will accomplish anything, versus voting a definitely scummy person. I was explaining why we're not all jumping on the vote fawful train.

[Geminex]

I kinda agree with Smarty. Lurkers or inactives are bad for the town, good for scum. It also makes sense for scum to be inactive a lot, at least to begin with. Question is, who to vote for.

Snake had suspicions about bob the merc, right?

Also, yay, not dead.

[Nikose Tyris]

See I had said that I was going to take those three talking and not being punished as evidence of some sort of masonry or mafia group, and since sifright roleclaimed without evidence and is apparently still in the game, I'm actually kind of partial to testing my theory here.

I support the day 1 lynch of Sifright to check if he's lying, or of Geminex to see if they are a scum group.

UNVOTE: SMARTY

I am in support of Geminex being our SACRIFICE, SACRIFICE- if Geminex comes up clean then Sifright would be a confirmed one shot PO, and bodyguard should cover him tonight while he gets his 1 investigation off.

You know unless I've completely misread somewhere on something.

So with that in mind I'll VOTE: GEMINEX

[Geminex]

Huh. Can I ask for the rationale of that? Like, we broke the rules, but not, I think, in such a way that we deserved a kill.

Hell, going by your logic, if the three of us ARE scum, why would we have posted the conversation at all? The only reason we did that is because we realized we had broken the rules. But you yourself said, if we were scum, we wouldn't have broken any rules.

[Nikose Tyris]

My logic is that a GO would have modkilled people who have broken the rules, and it's entirely possible somebody from outside looked in and went "Oh hey guys you should be doing that here" as an afterthought. You posted a text log, which is easily alterable anyway.

Essentially I'm admitting my logic is weak here but basically if Geminex = Scum then there is a high chance that Sifright = actually scum and not the role he claimed.

Mind you we could also do the same to Smarty and have the same results, I'm picking you because your avatar creeps me out, which is pretty much the worst logic possible.

But really if you drop&Scum, then I'd feel fairly confident that Sifright/Smarty are scum. Similarly, if Smarty drops&Scum, I'd feel confident that you and Sifright, and Sifright Drops&Scum, You and Smarty.

In contrast if you drop and are town, then I'd believe Sifright's roleclaim and I'd be inclined to believe Smarty is on town side.

/Nikosehasbadlogicbutitstilltechnicallyqualifiesasl ogic

[Nikose Tyris]

[Also forum is absolutely chugging today, and it seems to be only NPF for me. :/]

[rpgdemon]

I kinda agree with Smarty. Lurkers or inactives are bad for the town, good for scum. It also makes sense for scum to be inactive a lot, at least to begin with. Question is, who to vote for.

Snake had suspicions about bob the merc, right?

Also, yay, not dead.

My point is though, they're not actively bad. Having a townie gone is bad for the town, be it by inactivity, or by being killed off. But being inactive only means the town gets one fewer vote during the lynch, not that the town is being actively hurt. Killing the person off doesn't change the fact that the town is getting one fewer vote.

Granted, if we hold to only voting an inactive person if we have nothing else to go on, the scum could easily hide in inactivity and we keep killing ourselves, because they know we won't hit an inactive player.

But the way I see it, an inactive townie isn't hurting the town in any way that killing them will solve, and in fact they might have a reason to stay inactive. The scum gain nothing from killing off someone who doesn't appear to be a threat, so a town player with a power role might pretend to be inactive, just so that they can keep doing their thing.

By the same logic though, the town doesn't gain much by killing off a player who appears to be inactive, aside from hedging bets and not killing an active town player off, so the scum could hide behind that.

I feel like Vizzinni, in Princess Bride.

In any case, has Fawful done anything on the board, since the game started? If not, I don't think that being inactive can be any part of a strategy for him. As soon as he logs in and knows his role, it could be part of a strategy. But if there's no way for him to know his role yet, I think he's probably just busy.

So if we're voting inactives, I'd look at whoever has had activity within the past few days, but hasn't posted here yet, and hit them up. Though, I dunno, since it could be a town doctor or something, trying not to draw attention to themselves. Is that even a thing that people would do? This is the second game I've played.

[Geminex]

My logic is that a GO would have modkilled people who have broken the rules, and it's entirely possible somebody from outside looked in and went "Oh hey guys you should be doing that here" as an afterthought. You posted a text log, which is easily alterable anyway.

Yeah, but the fact that we posted anything at all kinda implies that we weren't scum.

If we were scum, that conversation would be totally cool by Fen. We would know that fenris wouldn't kill us for talking. The only thing we'd have to fear would be someone noticing our conversation, and getting suspicious. But we were the ones who drew attention to it. And you can say that it'd look even more suspicious if we didn't draw attention to it and someone else noticed, but if we thought someone was gonna spot us, why would we have talked in the chat at all?

Your logic is just... weird. You already have a pretty good sign that I, at the very least, am a Townie because I posted the freaking conversation. Smarty barely participated. As for Sif? Maybe. But I doubt it.

Anyway, even if me or Sif DO turn out to be scum, that doesn't mean that the other two are. A scum might have forgotten the rules as much as a townie, and Fenris would still have showed them mercy because they hadn't done any harm and tried to keep it a secret.

What I'm saying is, it doesn't make any sense of all three of us to be scum, and while some of us might be scum, even if you discover this, you can't draw any conclusions about the other two.

[Geminex]

I'm picking you because your avatar creeps me out, which is pretty much the worst logic possible.
Actually, this is probably the most logical argument in your whole post.
>: ]

Edit:
Also, does mafia always go this way?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I didn't talk about the game in chat, don't throw me in your boat mafiasuperscum.

[Nikose Tyris]

You're running around the point, Gem.

> You spoke about the game in public.
> You were not GM killed.

I'm ignoring Fenris' claim of "GM mercy" on the grounds that it might very well NOT be GM mercy, and simply him covering for your group getting caught publically discussing the game.

Everything beyond that is entirely circumstance. Nothing says you didn't edit the posts. Nothing says you weren't caught by someone not playing and called out on it. Nothing says you aren't trying to cover your ass right now- "Oh hey I posted the log I'm a townie lol" is a pretty weak cover.

GO kills people who talk out of game. People who don't get killed - scum. There's no getting around that, unless it's a terrible GM.

GM saying it's cool says that yes, it IS totally cool with the GM and he's just making a cover-your-ass post for exposing 2 (maybe 3) mafiates/scum in one day.

[rpgdemon]

Nik, a terrible GM actually enforces rules to the letter of the law with no leeway, to the detriment of the game.

A good GM will keep the game running well, even if the rules have to be bent.

[Geminex]

I get your point. Fenris didn't kill us, we must have been allowed to talk outside of chat.

But there's other reasons for Fenris to not kill us, the most obvious being that, hey, we didn't hurt anyone, and we immediately confessed, so Fen is being lenient. I mean, I don't think he wants to kill an extra 3 players in the first night. And while I'm a noob, I really can't see your argument that "Whoever talks, dies, DEFINITELY" as watertight, because it's not like the first time this has happened. The same thing happened in the homestuck mafia game, and nobody died that. I think you're just expecting GMs to be a lot stricter than they actually are, and you're using that expectation to justify our lynching.

Add to that the fact that it would make absolutely no sense for a group of scum to reveal that they'd been talking in chat, and your argument is really not looking very watertight.

Edit: RPG summed up my second paragraph very nicely.

[Sifright]

HOS: Nikose

Basically when you guys lynch Gem and he's townie lets turn around and lynch the hell out of nikose, basically you are blowing this out of proportion. The information was posted up by Gem there was no getting 'caught' as your trying to frame it. He intentionally posted the entire log chat to the thread. If anything killing me makes more sense because as i recall I said something about not posting on here. Basically you are grasping at straws.

Also you guys mis characterized my role. I'm not a one shot PO I have literally no active or passive powers I simply start out knowing one person who began play as a townie i've no idea what will happen to them later and no i'm not saying who it is for now.

To reiterate we were not caught discussing the game gem came forth and put the log down because he forgot about the rule at the time.

[Nikose Tyris]

And nothing you or RPG are saying is changing my opinion whatsoever. I'm not changing my vote. Each person who comes in to support your side of the arguement, if/when you turn up scum, will then also be highly suspicious.

[Nikose Tyris]

Edit: Or Sif for that matter.

[Nikose Tyris]

Because at this point it's literally the only actual thing we have to go on. Nothing of substance beyond this has actually happened. There's no reason not to pursue it.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Nikose, Geminex posted the conversation. Why would he do that if he were Mafia or a Mason?

At this point, I am feeling Nikose as scum enough to Friendship the hell out of: Nikose. He made that incredibly suspicious post a while back, and now he's trying to get a lynch started based on some incredibly shaky logic.

Let's see where this leads us.

[Geminex]

Because at this point it's literally the only actual thing we have to go on. Nothing of substance beyond this has actually happened. There's no reason not to pursue it.

Eh. There's a bunch of things. My arguments for Bookie, for one. Your own behavior, for another. Neither are any more insubstantial than the argument you're making.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Like, has everyone forgotten about

Alduin was culted night 0.

RPG is serial Killer.

Snake is probably going to die by mafia kill night one.

Bob the merc is Cult leader.

but me?

That post alone is probably lynch-worthy.

[Nikose Tyris]

:D *snuggles Bookworm* I already explained that it was a ploy to prove his town-ness, Bookie.

Also, I was acting like an idiot because there's literally nothing else to accomplish first day. At best, it's a random guess based on intuition. At worst, it's a no-lynch. Day 1 actions are only part of a larger picture by day 2.

However, if it makes you feel better, go ahead and Vote/Friendship the hell out of me. If I had an important role, I'd probably be playing smarter. Or not!

I'm actually not sure. I'm going after Gem/Sif/Smarty because honestly, they're the closest thing to a logical takedown right now. I've been shown nothing contrary to that yet, either- I still say it could have easily been an edited chat log, and that someone else might have reminded them they aren't supposed to talk about shit outside the game. A quick edit, a post in the thread to seem falsely contrite about it and bam, clean slate in the eyes of the guy who saw them doing the actual posting.

And if that guy wasn't nightkillable I'm sure he'd say something like "I was the one who saw all this go down." but I'm not so I didn't see anything.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

On the lynching of inactives, I don't actually think it does hurt us to lynch them at any point. Last time I checked (it was a while ago, so this count may be off now) there were 5 inactives. Assuming there are around 5 mafia, and the worst possible case is that none of them get lynched at all, then town can still lose a day before the mafia outnumbers them, because the last active townie will be killed off the previous night, after spending the whole day arguing with a room full of mafia.

At that point the game is over despite the fact that mafia hasn't technically won, because there's no one left to defend the town. So we may as well lynch the inactives, they're not actually doing anything to contribute to the safety of the town if all they're doing is sitting there taking up space so the mafia can target the active players and then just kill off the inactives for an easy victory. The more townies who're talking, the harder it is for the scum to decide who to kill off.

Of course that's the worst possible scenario and probably won't happen, but
lynching them early at least stops the scum from trying to hide in inactivity. The only downside I can really see is that some of them may be town power roles that are trying to get by unnoticed, but you can still get by unnoticed by posting something, as apposed to looking like you've just abandoned the game and forfeited your role completely. I mean if you're trying to look inactive to avoid a mafia kill because you have a town power, then you can at least make your presence in the game known by making at least 1 post so that we know who's playing.

Saying that though it might just also encourage any scum who're trying to hide in annonymity to start posting as well, which is of course, the point, because the more they post the more likely someone is to catch them in a lie.

[Nikose Tyris]

That's a decent point, Hawk, but honestly what if they're all town? kill 5 inactives = 5 less town = balance thrown way outta whack.

Lynchin' one of the three bickerings here [Gem, Myself, Bookie] Would at least put a suspicious cast on the other two in that bicker circle, giving a lead. [unless one of us was legitimately a scum and you picked right on the first go round, at which point, fuckin' flowers and celebrations, amirite?]

I'm just generally opposed to lynching inactives since power roles tend to be more excited to play than vanillas.

[Mr.Bookworm]

:D *snuggles Bookworm* I already explained that it was a ploy to prove his town-ness, Bookie.

Also, I was acting like an idiot because there's literally nothing else to accomplish first day. At best, it's a random guess based on intuition. At worst, it's a no-lynch. Day 1 actions are only part of a larger picture by day 2.

However, if it makes you feel better, go ahead and Vote/Friendship the hell out of me. If I had an important role, I'd probably be playing smarter. Or not!

For you see he is the puppets master

and we all can but dance upon his strings

.

[Nikose Tyris]

If you are honestly trying to suggest that I am smart enough to be a puppetmaster

UNVOTE: GEMINEX

VOTE: BOOKWORM

Because like, I have a reputation as being the town idiot here.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Why am I being put into this group of chatters? I wasn't talking about the game at all in the chat.

But I missed it before, Sif why don't you say who you found with your role. Scum already know who town are, any information we have will be useful and if you or the other person happen to die it will provide us with helpufl information. Obviously don't reveal town power if that's what you know but you could help us narro wdown th elynch a bit.
So once Sif does that it will help inform out vote but firstly
Listen to Halk, getting out the inactives makes sense at this point.
And Fawlfulcopter is the most inactive total.

[Nikose Tyris]

Also the forums went down for me like 4 times trying to post that, and I have class

So

See you all at like, 5-6PM EST.

[Sifright]

I'm leaving to go home in an hour or two and my pc at home died, so I won't be around in the evenings Uk times unless i can revive my machine, but seriously Nikose you so Mafia/cult/nightmare moon :|

[rpgdemon]

Lynching an inactive who hasn't logged into the forum is the same as voting a no-lynch, you realize, right? Anyone who's done something in the forum at large is fair game, but an inactive who doesn't know their role yet is just a no lynch.

Look at it this way: Right now, we have 16 players, and five dummy inactive players.

If we lynch an inactive player, we have 16 players, and four dummy inactive players. If we're lucky, one of the inactive people was scum. If they're not scum, then we are doing nothing for five days, literally making no impact on the game state, until the inactive players are gone.

Worst case scenario isn't us hitting all townies, and inactive players surviving, it's us hitting all the inactive players, and making no impact on the game until day six. If we honestly have no leads, burning through an inactive player is a solid idea, since it won't hurt our game state, and it has a slim chance of helping us, but most likely, we'll be making no effect on the actual game by hitting someone who isn't playing. Either way, they're not playing, whether we kill them or leave them.

If we decide to vote off an inactive person, we ought to have no other leads. It's just sitting around trying not to hit a town player, by essentially not lynching. Last game, I thought we shouldn't lynch Day 1 because we had no information, and I was told that not lynching is the worst thing you can do, because even if you hit a townie, you'll get some information, and you might hit scum.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Lynching an inactive who hasn't logged into the forum is the same as voting a no-lynch, you realize, right? Anyone who's done something in the forum at large is fair game, but an inactive who doesn't know their role yet is just a no lynch.

Look at it this way: Right now, we have 16 players, and five dummy inactive players.

If we lynch an inactive player, we have 16 players, and four dummy inactive players. If we're lucky, one of the inactive people was scum. If they're not scum, then we are doing nothing for five days, literally making no impact on the game state, until the inactive players are gone.

Worst case scenario isn't us hitting all townies, and inactive players surviving, it's us hitting all the inactive players, and making no impact on the game until day six. If we honestly have no leads, burning through an inactive player is a solid idea, since it won't hurt our game state, and it has a slim chance of helping us, but most likely, we'll be making no effect on the actual game by hitting someone who isn't playing. Either way, they're not playing, whether we kill them or leave them.

If we decide to vote off an inactive person, we ought to have no other leads. It's just sitting around trying not to hit a town player, by essentially not lynching. Last game, I thought we shouldn't lynch Day 1 because we had no information, and I was told that not lynching is the worst thing you can do, because even if you hit a townie, you'll get some information, and you might hit scum.


....Nooooo. Assuming the following math is based on what we know of roles then if we vote No-lynch then the population of the game as of tomorrow will be almost unquestionably -1 to town for mafia kill and -1 for the cult. Depending on how many goddamn roles have been thrown out it may also be -1 for a SK and -1 for a vig.

Voting for a lynch is potentially adding another to that pile. Of course we have the chance to kill a mafiate which is well worth it in most cases, but there's a clear distinction between having a population that is -1 from a lynched inactive or not having lynched it. This is actually kinda important too, because the victory condition for the mafia is to outnumber the town.

[Sifright]

Just thought i should point out that Serial killer and Vig are not confirmed only the cult and mafia are, We should work to what we know but make contingencies for what could be.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

The same thing happened in the homestuck mafia game, and nobody died that.

Out of curiosity, when this happened before, what did those players turn out to be in the end?

Also, GAH! The forums are being a nuisance today. I had a sizable response I wanted to make to Nikose but the post got eaten. Basically I don't agree with his logic on the chatlog posting. I think it was a genuine mistake of gems to mention it and he was trying to be fair by posting it so we could all see. The times on each line work out perfectly and match the time it was posted on the forum, so if he was trying to cover things up he either did a really good job very quickly, or he just isn't trying to cover up anything.

Further if he was scum he wouldn't have posted it at all, unless there happened to be a townie in the room, but we've heard nobody complain about the conversation being edited, which is what you would expect if you were town and happened to overhear the scum talking. If somebody who witnessed this supposed, un-edited version of the chat turned up with the unedited version then I'd be more inclined to believe that something odd was going on. It would have been just as easy for somebody else to post this un-edited version, but there isn't anything.

So yeah, I don't buy niks logic there.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

RPG- what you are missing completely is how daytime works when you are full of inactives, how the town wins the games via information flow. Lynching an inactive is in way at all the same as a no-lynch.
And like obviously if we have leads we will follow them. What I'm saying is we don't have any good leads at the moment (well none that convince me, others might be convinced by the leads going).

Also Sif tell us what you know.

[Sifright]

Okay the dude I know is almost certainly a power role I don't know what their power is but i do know their flavor role and it lines up fluff wise with those who have powers, I can't in good faith reveal the person because if their power is doctor/bodyguard role they can't protect them selves and being the only known innocent basically makes them the obvious night 1 kill for the mafia.

[Sifright]

Also smarty Lynching an inactive who hasn't logged onto the forum in the entire time the game has been running does nothing to help town at all, it's pretty odd of you to say otherwise. If they haven't logged onto the board once killing them or not changes nothing for one simple reason they can't have night actions if they aren't logging on at all so whether they are mafia cult or serial killer it doesn't matter.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Okay the dude I know is almost certainly a power role I don't know what their power is but i do know their flavor role and it lines up fluff wise with those who have powers, I can't in good faith reveal the person because if their power is doctor/bodyguard role they can't protect them selves and being the only known innocent basically makes them the obvious night 1 kill for the mafia.


So what you mean is that you know the character name but not the role, right?
Why don't you post that character name and then later on down the line maybe it'll be useful for a confirmation of role.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also smarty Lynching an inactive who hasn't logged onto the forum in the entire time the game has been running does nothing to help town at all, it's pretty odd of you to say otherwise. If they haven't logged onto the board once killing them or not changes nothing for one simple reason they can't have night actions if they aren't logging on at all so whether they are mafia cult or serial killer it doesn't matter.

As I said it still matters. The inactive still in one way or another counts toward the ratio of scum to town. If that ratio tips too far we lose.

[Sifright]

also worth mentioning is the fact that any one who stays inactive until just after day ends becomes a massive candidate for being scum.

[Sifright]

Alright thats not a bad idea I know who fluttershy is.

[Sifright]

Also you are correct that inactives even if they don't log on tip the scales for winning but inactive mafia players can't vote to night kill us and if they don't have any forum activity including logging on to the board then killing them is pointless

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Alright thats not a bad idea I know who fluttershy is.

Alrighty then, that allows me to do this: I declare myself to be that very Fluttershy. I am the Fluttershy. It is me and I am town.

Do you confirm?

[Sifright]

Confirmed also this is a terrible idea..

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Confirmed also this is a terrible idea..

Only if you don't know my role.
As it stands, your role has fulfilled it's purpose in that we now know all that you know. There's no reason for the mafia to target you to eliminate that information.

Likewise, with knowledge of my status I can be verified as town. And I'm comfortable in declaring openly that I am pretty much the best townie you ever did see. The cult won't be able to turn me, and that means when you need a true blue friend in the dark, you can count on Flutter-goddamn-shy.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok I was just looking over the inactives and I'm now quite concerned, Fawfulcopter has made 1 post on the forum earlier this month, Julford hasn't been on since last month and I can't even find earl anywhere in the sign up thread. Did he actually sign up or am I missing something here?

Also moogle and bob have been around but not posted at all yet.

Funny you should mention the individual character sif, I was trying to figure out, from which characters may be in the game, what roles they might have in the game. Fluttershy was one I couldn't really define a role for, except maybe a tenous link to doctor, but there is a doctor in the show so I duno if fen might have used that character for the actual doctor.

As for the others, assuming other manes have power roles, then Twilight is probably the inspector, and Pinkie is either cult leader or some sort of jester role (either trying to keep a party going or just causing chaos). Though the jester may also be Discord.

Not sure on any others really, or how your singular knowledge of another player is relatable to a character. Anyone got any thoughts?