Pokemon Umbral Theatre 1: Where All the Lurkers...Ah...Lurk

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

And ok, so maybe it wasn't about plagiarism. But the argument as you meant it to be didn't make sense. This is (or, rather, will be, I hope) part of my upgrades. Means I don't get it for free. Which is the entire problem I have with your stuff. It's not excessively strong as it is. There's nothing wrong with it in those regards. But you're asking to get it without having to level-up, without having to sacrifice any particular skill for it. And because that's the case, those techniques are way to strong. Since there's no need for balancing either. There's no need to get a free upgrade. You just want one. And AB's giving it to you.

Technically, we're not getting them for free.

We're retroactively replacing the old Trainer Attack upgrade for them. We've already spent a level on them, see?

I like Trainer Actions, man. I want 'em. So I came up with my five and, instead of going over your heads and taking them to AB, I asked you, so we could come up with something reasonable together.

Hell, I'm not even against you getting your Tactical Actions either.

I'm just, y'know, asking for your help balancing my Trainer Actions. Or, if you think it can't be done, we take it to AB.

So hey AB, Geminex and Menarker have a problem with Trainer Actions, and I do kinda see their point. Maybe we could, I dunno, knock he number down to three or come up with something else entirely to replace Trainer Attack?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And no, the credit for the half-demoness thing is entirely yours. I don't even remember that.

Well then, what were you referring to?

Originally Posted by Geminex

Look, I was drunk and it was a mistake, ok? It happened one time, and it doesn't mean anything!

BUT I THOUGHT YOU LOVED ME.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Ok, so maybe I give off the "I'm always right" vibe. But come on, I propose something 5 threads ago, and it gets rejected as "doesn't make any sense why would that even happen". Menarker proposes it now, justifies it a lot less well, and suddenly AB's like "I hadn't thought of that!". YES. YOU HAD. YOU READ A GREAT BIG LONG PARAGRAPH ABOUT IT BEFORE TELLING ME I WAS STUPID FOR SUGGESTING IT.

Yeah, I don't really know what's up with that. I think it's because your main point was giving Pokebrids Sig-techs instead of Synch-techs and we didn't like that.

I think it's cool that pokebrids get a Synchronization Technique for every new form.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And now the same thing with the Trainer actions vs. Tactical actions! He's perfectly open to you guys asking for a free upgrade, but when I propose a way to make my upgrades logical (because he already approved all the abilities, all I'm trying to do is regulate how Impact uses them. Because giving him a dozen rage-using techniques would be stupid, and so would just letting him use each technique once per turn for free) he instantly goes "no, next RP". And even if I propose more stuff than you guys do, proposals should be weighed on their own merits, not rejected because one of my things already got accepted last thread. It's not like I'm asking for favors, after all, I'm try to improve the RP.

Oh, AB probably misunderstood you. I mean, Tactical Actions does sound like a sequel thing, because even though you'll be coming out to play every now and then, most of the time Impact'll be sitting in his throne watching his minions fight the heroes.

Also, I'm not saying your proposals are getting rejected because you make too many of them.

I'm saying, all of us make suggestions. Some of those suggestions get rejected for perfectly valid reasons. You make the most suggestions, therefore your suggestions that get rejected for perfectly valid reasons will be more than ours.

I mean seriously dude, just because you proposed it doesn't make it an instant winner.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And come on. When have I ever sulked or played victim when one of my things got rejected?

Right now, whining about your Tactical Actions.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And like I said, the moves all seem interesting, but there's honestly no reason for you to get them for free...
If you put them into breeder, replace some other upgrade with them, great! I'd be behind that, because it's creative and pretty awesome. Or even if you really want them now, you could replace, I dunno, your leader pokemon with them? Or maybe go back to having just 4 pokemon in your team? I don't mind how you do it. But I'm heavily against you getting an upgrade of this magnitude for free without a shred of justification (because that paragraph at the end of your post doesn't actually make a point), unless, like I said, pokebrids and slayers get something similar, also for free.

I really don't wanna put them into Breeder. Why? Because there's other stuff that's more important to me to get and I'm probably only going to get one level of Breeder, unless you were to let me customize my own Slayer levels or something.

And hell, even I don't think I should get to customize my Slayer levels.

And seriously? Giving up a leader or going back to four pokemon? Jesus dude, they're not that strong.

I mean, the upgrade we spent (wasted) on Trainer Attack isn't even worth at least three not-so-powerful-but-still-better-than-trainer-attack Trainer Actions?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And I don't put it past you to power up pokebrid and then decide you'd prefer that class, citing my extensive objections to your choosing Slayer as a reason for your sudden switch, but very well. Benefit of the doubt and all that.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And if AB intended that, fine. He can do that. I'm just saying that it really doesn't make much sense for pokebrids to get their signature techniques with each new form, rather than with levels like all the other classes (except, admittedly, demon). I'm also saying that it would be more sense if sync-techs were treated like signature techniques, with all the applicable limitations and benefits. And if AB really wants them to have a lot of forms and a technique for each, we could give pokebrids the choice of foregoing their relationship techs in favor of more sync-techs. I think Matt might certainly benefit from that.

As everyone likes to mention, Pokebrid's strong suit is their diversity. Why shouldn't that also apply to their Techniques, too?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And like I mentioned above, Tactions will just be a way to manage all the stuff Impact will be doing. I asked for a variety of abilities, and you seemed to be ok with those. But how to manage them? Making them all rage-fuelled would be sorta stupid, cause he already has barely enough rage to use all his techniques with, let alone to use all the other stuff he's gonna get.
So, I thought it'd be good to introduce tactical actions with which he pays for the abilities he uses. He'd get, like, two tactical actions per turn to begin with, and three abilities to use them with, and as he levels up, he'd get more actions per turn, and a greater wealth of abilities. I'd still get a bit of stuff for combat, but by level 10, Impact's main role would be "strategic supporter", and by level 15 that would be even more the case. And I mean, he doesn't have to be the only one to use that system. You said you were thinking of coming up with a scout class (or, well, I complained that there wasn't one and you said ok), that could employ something similar.

... You do realize that with Trainer Actions we'd only be able to use one at a time, right?

And AB, whatever [I]did [/BI]happen to that Scout specialty that Gem proposed?

[Astral Harmony]

Let me go ahead and address all the orange text before I enjoy these illegally downloaded hentai games.

And City of Heroes some more.

So hey AB, could you clarify how PC dual-classes would work once and for all that so there's no confusion, or no belief that there's confusion?

I believe you've already said that Trainer and Snagger won't mesh well, but let's say that someone was to take a character all the way up to level 10 in both classes. They'd be severely gimped because they'd get a bunch of upgrades they've already got, but eventually they would be able to have six pokemon and snag two more, and have ability shifts and custom moves and Xth-level pokemon, and fancy Snagball status effects?

As for PC Battle Masters, I believe they can only have two combatants out at any one time, which could very well be two pokemon, or one pokemon and the Battle Master themself, correct? And they'd carry six items.

Same for PC Legion Mages.

Anyway, don't worry about making us feel stupid. God knows we are if we have to keep asking this.

The NPC Snagger recruited during Mission 4 will actually be this class. I'm not certain how badly a Trainer/Snagger dual class will actually be in relation to other dual classes. I guess we'll both find out when we see her performance in battle.

You've pretty much nailed everything right down correctly. I wish I had that talent.

And AB, whatever did happen to that Scout specialty that Gem proposed?

Never got off the ground. I had completely forgotten all about it, and I think everyone else did, but you just had to go and bring it back up. Gawd, you always do this! I banish you to go work at a Banana Republic!

So hey AB, Geminex and Menarker have a problem with Trainer Actions, and I do kinda see their point. Maybe we could, I dunno, knock he number down to three or come up with something else entirely to replace Trainer Attack?

Let's do this. Every even level of the Trainer/Breeder class (Trainer 2, Trainer 4, Breeder 1, Breeder 3, Breeder 5), we allow another Trainer Action. Then...oh, set the Trainer Attack for maybe just Trainer level 1.

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And I'm sorry about the Tactical Actions nonsense, all right? It's just...I'm kind of feeling that if we keep throwing all this stuff in, then there isn't anything to look forward to in the sequel. I wanna do lotsa shit with it (attributes, terrain and move, Harem Techs, a Knomere Pokebrid form, etc.) and it's only Mission 3. All I'm saying is that the sequel is going to be huge in its own right, and believe me, skills and abilities that you don't learn until then will most certainly not be useless.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

The NPC Snagger recruited during Mission 4 will actually be this class. I'm not certain how badly a Trainer/Snagger dual class will actually be in relation to other dual classes. I guess we'll both find out when we see her performance in battle.

Eh, it can't be worse than a pure Snagger.

Also, I imagine it wouldn't be that great. You said NPCs don't get all the cool stuff us PCs do like custom items, custom moves and Xth-level pokemon. So I don't think making her a Trainer/Snagger would be much different than making her just a Snagger.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Let's do this. Every even level of the Trainer/Breeder class (Trainer 2, Trainer 4, Breeder 1, Breeder 3, Breeder 5), we allow another Trainer Action. Then...oh, set the Trainer Attack for maybe just Trainer level 1.

I could live with that.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

And I'm sorry about the Tactical Actions nonsense, all right? It's just...I'm kind of feeling that if we keep throwing all this stuff in, then there isn't anything to look forward to in the sequel. I wanna do lotsa shit with it (attributes, terrain and move, Harem Techs, a Knomere Pokebrid form, etc.) and it's only Mission 3. All I'm saying is that the sequel is going to be huge in its own right, and believe me, skills and abilities that you don't learn until then will most certainly not be useless.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Harem Techs

I don't say this often enough: I love you AB and you're getting a spot on my harem tech.

Originally Posted by Geminex

I understand that much. But your old trainer actions were a weak attack. And they were appropriate for that level, all the classes got about equal upgrades during that level. The stuff you're proposing now now is far more useful than that! You're getting buffed, retroactively. Your level 2 is now much stronger than anyone else's level 2. And you don't need that buff, goddammit. The other classes need it way more!

Which is why I'm not even balancing it. I'm saying "not for free". When you concede that point, then we can get to balancing.

Okay, I see your point.

Magic Code Word, activate! "not for free".

Originally Posted by Geminex

And AB's solution is better, since you're getting the stuff more gradually, but trainers are still getting a buff.
So AB, what are Slayers and Brids gonna get in return? Cause they have to get something. I... insist.

Slayer Actions and Pokemoves!

Pretty much just an equivalent of Trainer Actions for Slayers and Pokebrids. Then you can put some of your proposed upgrades for Demon into those, and have more stuff to get for your Demon upgrade.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Oh, sure. But you were talking about "a higher ratio". And if we're talking ratios, then the amount of proposals should be irrelevant.

Yep, my bad. Totally not what I meant.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Because, like I said, they'd be the only class for whom signature techniques work differently. And honestly, how would we do it if Matt takes some levels in another class? Would he start getting techniques normally?

Look at Melanie. She gets Synchronization Techniques and Signature Techniques for being a Slayer/Pokebrid.

Basically, think of Synchronization Techniques as a class feature, like Slayers getting weapons, armor and accessories, and trainers getting, y'know, pokemon and everything that comes with them. Don't think of them as Signature Techniques.

Yes, of course Pokebrid's class feature is more powerful than anyone else's. You know what they do to pay for that? They end up a very Rage-reliant class, and name me one time we've used a Rage Rocket on Matthias this mission. He's still probably not going to get any Rage Rockets if we make Synchronization Techniques vary their cost, and drop Paradigm Shifts to 20 RPs for one turn. They'll just, y'know, be able to actually use their techniques.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Why're you comparing tactions with trainer actions? They have nothing to do with each other.

Maybe I got the wrong impression because you proposed them as a result of us getting trainer actions.

[Astral Harmony]

So AB, what are Slayers and Brids gonna get in return? Cause they have to get something. I... insist.

I'll insist the back of my hand upside your head.

Joking aside, let's do that, Gem. What do you suggest Slayers and Pokebrids gain in return? You tell me they should gain something, but you don't have a suggestion. So all I can do is make one up myself.

First, let's do these Slayer Actions. They're free, they don't even cost Rage, and you can use only one per turn. Slayers can do a weak Normal type attack at level 1.

As for the rest, since you're a Slayer level 4, you can create two more of comparable strength to the Slayer level 1 Slayer Action.

Pokebrids get Pokebrid Actions, obviously. The idea I have is to let them do a status effect or debuff based on the primary type of their current Pokebrid form at the start of the turn. Like if the Pokebrid is a Poison type (or Poison is listed as the first type of a dual-type), then the Pokebrid Action is a free Poison affliction on a target of his or her choosing at various percentages depending on the effect.

Various percentages depending on the effect? What does that mean? Well, it's simple common sense. A Poison Pokeform Action should inflict Poison 100% of the time, right? That's fair, I think. But the Ghost Pokebrid Action should NOT inflict Instant Death 100% of the time. Otherwise, we really have no need for Snipers since a Ghost type Pokebrid could instantly kill one enemy unit per turn, no cost or nothing.

To make it clear, let's take Matthias's forms...

1.) Matthias's first Pokeform is Venomoth. It's first type is listed as Bug. So the Pokebrid Action could reduce Evasion by one level 100%.
2.) Next up is Castform. As we all know, Castform changes types based on the current weather, so Castform has access to no less than four types. The Normal type deals small Normal type damage. The Fire type would inflict Burn at 50%. Water type would inflict Sleep at 50%. Ice type would inflict Freeze at 50%. Because status effects are a more effective tactic, they tend to have less of a chance at inflicting the desired effects.
3.) Finally, we've got Porygon Z. Porygon Z is Normal type, so it does Normal type damage for its Pokebrid Action.

I feel that Pokebrid Actions should become available as the Pokebrid/Deva gains new forms.

If there's an issue, please address it so we can work it together. I love it when a good RP group cooperates to make everything better.

And AB, this isn't a big thing I'm asking for! Certainly not so big that it should have to wait until the sequel. You already said yes to tall the stuff I asked for for Impact's demon upgrade, right? Power up allies, depower enemies, scout the enemy, do crippling damage when it's necessary, you were fine with that, right?
The question is, how to implement it? Are you just gonna give Impact a bunch of rage-using techniques? If that's the case, you'd have to massively buff his rage generation to pretty much destroyer levels, because using techniques is gonna be his main role. He'll be a caster, he needs to be able to cast a lot.
But I think rage should be separate. Let it remain fuel for sig-techs and other combat abilities. And that's why I recommended tactical actions. They're seperate from rage, but they still serve to ration Impact's ability use. It's a rationing mechanism, not a whole new combat system! It's not that big a thing.

I think I said it twice in this thread that I wanted to work it over with you. So, give me your suggestions before I Dinner your ass.

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You said NPCs don't get all the cool stuff us PCs do like custom items, custom moves and Xth-level pokemon. So I don't think making her a Trainer/Snagger would be much different than making her just a Snagger.

I'm actually going to start applying those upgrades to NPCs now. I just need time for...inspiration. Like the inspiration I got when I saw this evolved version of a Sharpedo on Gelbooru that I decided to name Sharpredator.



Wouldn't Moon be a total badass is his Sharpedo evolved into that thing?

Anyways, the classes will also get stuff like Trainer Actions as well to bring them up to par.

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Harem Techs are going to be strange. I'm thinking that since there's so many NPCs (particularly attractive female ones), I'd group them together and set them up to work in tandem with PCs in something called Harem Techs. I'm going to want more time with it, of course.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Slayer Actions and Pokebrid Actions.

OMGWTF I JUST SAID THAT PLAGIARISM ILL SUE

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

If there's an issue, please address it so we can work it together. I love it when a good RP group cooperates to make everything better.

Phhbbb-HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHEHEHEHEHE HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

I think I said it twice in this thread that I wanted to work it over with you. So, give me your suggestions before I Dinner your ass.

You should Dinner his ass anyway. I mean, you already had to ask him twice! Dude just refuses to believe that you want to help him, because it's easier to think he's the one getting shafted.

Oh man, I love Geminex bashing. Seriously, it's like an addiction. A highly disturbing one.

Okay, I'm not going to troll Geminex quite like that to his face anymore. Fo' realz. I'm still going to troll him, just not with comments like that.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

I'm actually going to start applying those upgrades to NPCs now. I just need time for...inspiration. Like the inspiration I got when I saw this evolved version of a Sharpedo on Gelbooru that I decided to name Sharpredator.

Cool! I kinda wanna make Elizabeth a Trainer/Snagger now, so she can take advantage of all the custom stuff.

Though I don't want to steal AB's Trainer/Snagger NPC for Mission 4's thing.

Hmmm... AB, can I make Elizabeth a Trainer/Snagger after Mission 4? Basically just give her as many levels in Trainer as she has Snagger? That way I get what I want, without ruining the surprise of your NPC.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Wouldn't Moon be a total badass is his Sharpedo evolved into that thing?

Meh, it's nice. I mean, cool and all, but not all that great. Not as great as Unownaut anyway.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Anyways, the classes will also get stuff like Trainer Actions as well to bring them up to par.

Think this through, AB.

You're giving Elizabeth Trainer Actions.

Consider all the ramifications and tell me if you think that's a good idea.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Harem Techs are going to be strange. I'm thinking that since there's so many NPCs (particularly attractive female ones), I'd group them together and set them up to work in tandem with PCs in something called Harem Techs. I'm going to want more time with it, of course.

Mine is going to be Pierce getting together with the Kimonos to call in God AKA Armored Bishoujo to smite some baddies.

And then they all blow God.

Because you're just that cool, AB.